Daniel's "hands off" parents...like Jonas' folks??

[zachary2020]

It could be that the plot has Daniel's parents being "very hands off" to explain why they aren't freaking when he's gone for long periods of time, and why he hasn't gone to them for help...

But what if Daniel's parents actually died (or disappeared), like Jonas' and he just does not want to talk about it... or maybe they were taken away like Bree's parents were.

It would be interesting if Bree,Daniel, and Jonas were all "orphaned" by the Order, and joined up together... then they, and Cassie found that their parents were alive and freed them, at the end. (It could be that Gemma is playing along with the Order to free _her_ parents.)

Maybe that's too "happily ever after", though.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

That would be just like that episode of Jimmy Neutron on Nickelodeon.

[zachary2020]

That would be just like that episode of Jimmy Neutron on Nickelodeon.

Call me culturally illiterate but I don't know who Jimmy Neutron is. (No, i'm not home schooled ) I have watched Nickelodeon a few times and liked it so at least I'm not a total luddite.

[Lurker]

It would be painfully contrived if all of them had parents who had disappeared because of the Order. In any event, we know that Daniel's parents haven't vanished. Bree mentioned speaking to them in the "Where's Daniel?" video.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

Jimmy Neutron:

[incantation_mantra]

Or, what if Daniels parents are Jonas's missing parents.

[zachary2020]

It would be painfully contrived if all of them had parents who had disappeared because of the Order. In any event, we know that Daniel's parents haven't vanished. Bree mentioned speaking to them in the "Where's Daniel?" video.

Painfully contrived? You mean like Gemma turning out to be in touch with Lucy?

I agree that all of their parents having been with the Order would be contrived... sometimes "contrived" is okay, (though painfully certainly isn't! ).

You're right, Bree did say that she called Daniel's house when she was looking for him (Episode _Where's Daniel_; Bree: "I called your parent's house and they said you went away with some friends")...

How do we know that someone from the Order didn't answer the phone? That was when Daniel had just seen photos of himself on Lucy's computer. Far fetched?? Most certainly! But the whole concept of The Order is, too. That's part of why this is so much fun, isn't it?

[Lurker]

Painfully contrived? You mean like Gemma turning out to be in touch with Lucy?

I wouldn't really call that contrived. It was something that some people had always expected, while others had begun to think might be a development post-"Bad Decisions." There was some prediction that we would see her with people from the Order.

Of course, we still don't know if she's a good guy or a bad guy, but the sighting itself wasn't contrived.

Bree did say that she called Daniel's house when she was looking for him (Episode _Where's Daniel_; Bree: "I called your parent's house and they said you went awya with some friends")...

How do we know that someone from the Order didn't answer the phone? That was when Daniel had just seen photos of himself on Lucy's computer. Far fetched?? Most certainly! But the whole concept of The Order is, too. That's part of why this is so much fun.

Presumably Daniel and Bree had been friends for a while before this series even started. I doubt that was the first time Bree had ever talked to them. On the off chance that Bree and Daniel were friends for over a year before she ever had reason to dial his home phone number, what are the chances that his more than year-long lie about having parents would suddenly get reinforcement from the Order themselves the one day that Bree decided to dial a number that Daniel had given her (which she could have dialed at any time before that)? And how would Daniel have been supporting himself while in high school? And why would he lie about something that could so easily be disproven for that long?

No, there's far fetched and then there's painfully contrived, and this would have to fall into the latter category. No offense intended, of course, but there's no way this could reasonably work.

[zachary2020]

Jimmy Neutron:

Ah, Thank you for posting that! Just from that pic, I want to check it out -- it looks hilarious. There have got to be old Nickelodeon episodes on DVD.

[zachary2020]

Painfully contrived? You mean like Gemma turning out to be in touch with Lucy?

I wouldn't really call that contrived. It was something that some people had always expected, while others had begun to think might be a development post-"Bad Decisions." There was some prediction that we would see her with people from the Order.

By the same token, some people expect Jonas and Daniel's (as well as Gemma's obviously) parents to be members of the Order.
Both are contrived.

By the way, just 'FYI', 1st meaning of contrived: to plan with ingenuity; devise; invent: The author contrived a clever plot. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/contrive

I do know what you mean by "contrived", and I definitely agree that some of this story is contrived in the less positive sense. But, for the most part, it is woven, i.e. contrived, in a very clever way.

Bree did say that she called Daniel's house when she was looking for him (Episode _Where's Daniel_; Bree: "I called your parent's house and they said you went awya with some friends")...

How do we know that someone from the Order didn't answer the phone? That was when Daniel had just seen photos of himself on Lucy's computer. Far fetched?? Most certainly! But the whole concept of The Order is, too. That's part of why this is so much fun.

Presumably Daniel and Bree had been friends for a while before this series even started. I doubt that was the first time Bree had ever talked to them.

Bree lived a sheltered life and never got out. She may have called Daniel's house before (rather than using his cell phone), but there isn't solid reason to jump to that conclusion.

On the off chance that Bree and Daniel were friends for over a year before she ever had reason to dial his home phone number, what are the chances that his more than year-long lie about having parents would suddenly get reinforcement from the Order themselves the one day that Bree decided to dial a number that Daniel had given her (which she could have dialed at any time before that)?

What are the chances of her never having been to a party in her life, before? Hmmmm... The girl wasn't/isn't exactly a typical teenager.
The reason that the Order might have been there to answer the phone is because they know Daniel was out with his backpack snooping around (who took the photos of him who were on Lucy's computer? the same people who might have patched his phone number over to one they could monitor).

And how would Daniel have been supporting himself while in high school? And why would he lie about something that could so easily be disproven for that long?

Same way Jonas has. Bree has omitted truths about her life -for that long - why wouldn't Daniel.

I'm not committed to the theory -- there are definitely weaknesses in it, as you've correctly pointed out. But I think it is as plausible as some of the other "what ifs".

[Lurker]

By the same token, some people expect Jonas and Daniel's (as well as Gemma's obviously) parents to be members of the Order.

The difference is that one of the theories calls us to assume something that we never had any indication of in the first place. At least with Gemma there was the fact that the timing of her first appearance was really convenient given everything else that was going on, as well as things like spotting the Watcher symbol on someone's hand when the visual was clear as a puddle of mud.

There was also her constant use of British terminology (and often in the wrong ways or in unnatural ways). Many took this as an attempt to make it seem like she's in London when she isn't. Then there's the fact that we never saw anything in her videos to indicate that she was definitely in London.

Of course, for all we know at the moment, she was in London until recently, but the point still remains that people had something to go on to question her. This theory about Daniel's parents actually contradicts what we've seen so far.

That and then there'd be the incredibly convenient fact that -- out of all the students that could have met and become friends -- Daniel and Bree just happened to. Unless they want to take this story into the Fantasy genre and make everything pre-ordained or something like that, a development such as this would leave the majority of fans going ":?".

Bree lived a sheltered life and never got out. She may have called Daniel's house before (rather than using his cell phone), but there isn't solid reason to jump to that conclusion.

Yet she had the number. No one in their right mind who was trying to fake having parents would give their home phone number to someone and then -- for over a year -- keep the lie going. That's like saying "I was born in California" and then giving someone the birth certificate which proves you were born in Illinois while hoping that they never bothered to unfold it and look at it.

What are the chances of her never having been to a party in her life, before?

Pretty good, actually. I'm over 20 and I've never been to one, and I know other people who haven't.

Going to a party is not as common an event as picking up the phone -- especially when you have a friend who comes over pretty much every day.

The reason that the Order might have been there to answer the phone is because they know Daniel was out with his backpack snooping around (who took the photos of him who were on Lucy's computer? the same people who might have patched his phone number over to one they could monitor).

And at no point since then Daniel would have asked "How did you manage to talk to my parents who don't exist?" He wouldn't have reasoned before now that -- if Bree was somehow talking to people at "his" house who shouldn't be there -- that it meant his place was compromised? He would have been talking about going home weeks ago -- even before Jonas' offer came along -- with that knowledge in his mind?

How dumb would he have to be?

Same way Jonas has.

As far as we know Daniel isn't sitting on a fortune or living in a big house. We've definitely never been given anything to suggest that.

By the way, you still haven't addressed why Daniel would be lying about something like this.

Bree has omitted truths about her life -for that long - why wouldn't Daniel.

There's a difference between omitting truths and telling outright lies that can easily be disproven. If we were friends and I never told you that I don't own a bicycyle, well, I have omitted truths. I've not lied, though. That's what Bree has been doing with her religion. She just hasn't said what it's about. Up until the fake ceremony, she hadn't lied about anything as far as we know.

I'm not committed to the theory -- there are definitely weaknesses in it, as you've correctly pointed out. But I think it is as plausible as some of the other "what ifs".

Some of the other "what if"s (like "Bree is at Holly's") aren't that strong either, so it's not made plausible simply by virtue of being more plausible than other theories. A plausible theory's going to need some kind of indication, some evidence... at the very least enough evidence for us to make a logical inference that "This could mean this without contradicting anything or requiring us to assume the opposite of the notion that more parsimonious explanations are the ones most likely to be true."

While it could happen, it would be highly absurd, and -- right now at least -- it's not a development we should be looking for.

[AGuyNamedJoe]

All the parents in the story have been removed because, like, how uncool it would be to have to answer to parental supervision when you are in the middle of the adventure of your life. It frees the characters to do whatever they need to do. Also, who wants to see a bunch of videos of kids calling home and lying to their parents about what they are doing.... or maybe it would work?

"Bree, where are you?"
"I'm living with Jonas because the Order is after me."
"Living with who? You're not sleeping with him are you?"
"No Mom, please, I have to go, the Order is after me."
"Think about your reputation honey, people will talk. They will think you're a slut."
"Mom, trust me. I also spent a week in a motel room with Daniel and nothing happened."
"Does anyone else know about this?"
"Just the Order and, well, maybe a few hundred thousand people on the internet."
"Oh honey, I don't think I approve of this. Come home right now or I'm telling your father."

[twelfthofnever]

Or, what if Daniels parents are Jonas's missing parents.

I really dig this theory! Long lost brothers are always fun storylines.

[zachary2020]

By the same token, some people expect Jonas and Daniel's (as well as Gemma's obviously) parents to be members of the Order.

The difference is that one of the theories calls us to assume something that we never had any indication of in the first place. At least with Gemma there was the fact that the timing of her first appearance was really convenient given everything else that was going on, as well as things like spotting the Watcher symbol on someone's hand when the visual was clear as a puddle of mud.

There was also her constant use of British terminology (and often in the wrong ways or in unnatural ways). Many took this as an attempt to make it seem like she's in London when she isn't. Then there's the fact that we never saw anything in her videos to indicate that she was definitely in London.

Of course, for all we know at the moment, she was in London until recently, but the point still remains that people had something to go on to question her. This theory about Daniel's parents actually contradicts what we've seen so far.

That and then there'd be the incredibly convenient fact that -- out of all the students that could have met and become friends -- Daniel and Bree just happened to. Unless they want to take this story into the Fantasy genre and make everything pre-ordained or something like that, a development such as this would leave the majority of fans going ":?".

Bree lived a sheltered life and never got out. She may have called Daniel's house before (rather than using his cell phone), but there isn't solid reason to jump to that conclusion.

Yet she had the number. No one in their right mind who was trying to fake having parents would give their home phone number to someone and then -- for over a year -- keep the lie going. That's like saying "I was born in California" and then giving someone the birth certificate which proves you were born in Illinois while hoping that they never bothered to unfold it and look at it.

What are the chances of her never having been to a party in her life, before?

Pretty good, actually. I'm over 20 and I've never been to one, and I know other people who haven't.

Going to a party is not as common an event as picking up the phone -- especially when you have a friend who comes over pretty much every day.

The reason that the Order might have been there to answer the phone is because they know Daniel was out with his backpack snooping around (who took the photos of him who were on Lucy's computer? the same people who might have patched his phone number over to one they could monitor).

And at no point since then Daniel would have asked "How did you manage to talk to my parents who don't exist?" He wouldn't have reasoned before now that -- if Bree was somehow talking to people at "his" house who shouldn't be there -- that it meant his place was compromised? He would have been talking about going home weeks ago -- even before Jonas' offer came along -- with that knowledge in his mind?

How dumb would he have to be?

Same way Jonas has.

As far as we know Daniel isn't sitting on a fortune or living in a big house. We've definitely never been given anything to suggest that.

By the way, you still haven't addressed why Daniel would be lying about something like this.

Bree has omitted truths about her life -for that long - why wouldn't Daniel.

There's a difference between omitting truths and telling outright lies that can easily be disproven. If we were friends and I never told you that I don't own a bicycyle, well, I have omitted truths. I've not lied, though. That's what Bree has been doing with her religion. She just hasn't said what it's about. Up until the fake ceremony, she hadn't lied about anything as far as we know.

I'm not committed to the theory -- there are definitely weaknesses in it, as you've correctly pointed out. But I think it is as plausible as some of the other "what ifs".

Some of the other "what if"s (like "Bree is at Holly's") aren't that strong either, so it's not made plausible simply by virtue of being more plausible than other theories. A plausible theory's going to need some kind of indication, some evidence... at the very least enough evidence for us to make a logical inference that "This could mean this without contradicting anything or requiring us to assume the opposite of the notion that more parsimonious explanations are the ones most likely to be true."

While it could happen, it would be highly absurd, and -- right now at least -- it's not a development we should be looking for.

I'm at work so I've got to be brief (sorry). I'll exerpt the points rather than all the quote/end quote.

<<"The difference is that one of the theories calls us to assume something that we never had any indication of in the first place. ">>

I agree with you about there being a foreshadowing of Gemma's "twist" of character, but there was a hint (and much speculation, though not on this forum -- that I've read, anyway), about Daniel's folks.

<<"That and then there'd be the incredibly convenient fact that -- out of all the students that could have met and become friends -- Daniel and Bree just happened to. ">>

Bree said that Daniel befriended her, when all the others were making fun of her and she was sittingin the lunch room alone. A kid whse parents had been in the Order could feel an emapthy for another "wierd" kid.


<<Pretty good, actually. I'm over 20 and I've never been to one, and I know other people who haven't.>>

Birthday parties, outings/kid parties at the zoo, picnics with a bunch of kids in the park. Every kid has gone to parties -- and later, the tween parties -- in this country, anyway... unless they are isolated and super sheltered.
The premise of the whole vlog series was that Bree isn't your average, "typical" girl, so the idea of her not being a phone hound fits with that.


You looking for a prepositional solidity in a plot that has taken odd twists and turns already and that the writers said would be changed according to user input -- and that's illogical.
A basic characteristic of the plot is that it can take on the colors and twists of the fans' ideas.

There's certainly enough ground on which to base this plot twist if they decided it was worth doing: never seeing Daniel's parents; his emphasis -- at least twice -- that they are "hands off"; his not even considering asking them for help -- even in a dire situation like they were in; his admant dislike of her religion (as if he's personally invested against it, for more reasons than his frendship with Bree).
His speculation about what her religion really is shows that he probably isn't a "child of the Order", but that could be explained to his wanting to be sure what Bree was into, and his encouraging "audience" participation. Also, a weakness in the ideas id that Parents who are in the Order have seemed to be more controlling than his parents _apparently_ are (if they're actually still alive), but that idea could be explained away easily (as have other plot holes), if the writers decided they wanted Daniel's parents to be (or have been) members of the Order.


As I said, I am not committed to this idea -- I posted it as a light "what if". But it has the same degree of plausibility that some other "what ifs" have, especially in a "new art form" where the plot morphs according to fans' input.

Now, I have to get back to work!

[Lurker]

Before responding to all that, I'll give you time to respond to the rest of what I mentioned. I think there's other important points I brought up, and since you're at work and were making a hasty reply, I bet you didn't get to say all you wanted to. In case you have more to add later on, I'll let you have the rest of the day to get back to me on the rest.