Xen wrote:
What the snake offered in Eden was knowledge and closer union with Yahweh. Many Christian scholars understand the snake and Lucifer/Satan/the Devil to be very different creatures in Christian mythology. They really have very little to do with one another, but that is another story for another time.
Yes. I had an interesting class once on how the serpent is really symbol of Christ. This is demonstrated in a story about Moses. There is a sickness afflicting the Hebrews and so an asp is placed on a rod. Whoever believes that they will be healed by touching the asp will be healed. One can clearly see parallels between the asp and Christ on the crucifix.
So I'm not entirely certain that the serpent in the garden of Eden was even Satan really. I mean the serpent did not lie. He said they would be like God knowing the difference between good and evil... which was true!
GimmeYourForever wrote:Well i've heard "satanic" being defined as the worship of one's self over or equal to that of God. In that case I think Thelema would be classified as satanic, however it has nothing to do with the worship of satan.
The Church of Satan doesn't worship Satan either, according to the Satanic Bible.
Minuet wrote:I just wanted to post this as an observation. Many of you are saying Thelema has nothing to do with Satan, and while the practice of Thelema may not (I don't know...I don't practice it) there are specific references to the Christian version of Satan in the book Crowley wrote as the Thelemic bible. I pulled this from Chapter 2 of the Book of Law:
And what does it say about that in the commentary? You can't just pull something out of the Book of the Law without referencing the commentary (which itself was referenced in the Book of the Law). What is gnostic thought concerning this? Crowley didn't make a GNOSTIC mass for nothing.
Hello all, this is my first post here and frankly i've surprise myself by registering, but all of this discussion about religion has fascinated me. In the course of investigating what on earth all of this cassie business might be about i've discovered Crowley and his writings, the Thelemic religion and much more of interest. Thanks are therefore due to the creators of LG15 and of the Cassie subplot (should they be different people) for raising all of this, it's interesting stuff. Perhaps this expansion of our own horizons is somewhat the point?
Anyway, I find it slightly surprising, though I suppose I ought not to, that such a fuss has been stirred over the possibility of a 'satanic' religion being introduced into the story. Do you honestly believe that you or any other will be irreversibly corrupted by encountering such information? My own limited research into the thelemic religion (thanks for the article tannhaus!) reveals an ultimately positive outlook. Even if the opposite were to be true, perhaps it is exactly this squeamish reaction that the creators hope to confront you, the audience, with.
Pre-conceived notions have been discussed in this thread, and rightly so. The quote pulled from the Book of Law asscribes the serpent with a desire to give knowledge. It is this same concept, that of knowledge, that we were to be protected from in Eden. Protected from knowledge? What knowledge must I be protected from? what is too dangerous to be known? who is making this decision for me?
The Thelemic faith seems to me to promote the idea of self-determinism. In other terms, the concept that each of us can think for ourselves, act for ourselves and take responsibility for ourselves (perhaps a step further than Thelemic faith takes, it is my own inference). To call each of us 'A star', to say that each of us can uncover our own 'will' surely gifts the individual with a sense of power that is distant or completely removed in many accepted readings of Christian doctrine.
Similar ideas of individual power can be found in other religions less recent than paganism or other Crowley related offshoots. Shamanism (and i use the term loosely as one that covers many different though fundamentally similar methods of living from 'primitive' times) suggests a similar power resides in each individual. It is an idea I am rather fond of, and I am loath to allow others to think for me, be they preachers from the church of modern science or any other faith based beleif mode (as science most certainly is) .
In short, If you take modern readings of Christian doctrine, a text that itself has been heavily edited over the years, to be absolute - then yes indeed satanism is a disturbing and a harrowing thing, perhaps even one not to be discussed, so as not to let the devil enter your heart! What an awful thing that might be, and one indeed to shy away from. However, if you approach what is put before you with an open mind you may find many more paths to walk, many more options to consider.
I hope I have not rambled too much.. It is late where I am, or early even. Good lord, i've just admitted that I have been kept up to the early hours with this stuff... compelling indeed.
fantasticmrfox wrote:The Thelemic faith seems to me to promote the idea of self-determinism. In other terms, the concept that each of us can think for ourselves, act for ourselves and take responsibility for ourselves (perhaps a step further than Thelemic faith takes, it is my own inference). To call each of us 'A star', to say that each of us can uncover our own 'will' surely gifts the individual with a sense of power that is distant or completely removed in many accepted readings of Christian doctrine.
Similar ideas of individual power can be found in other religions less recent than paganism or other Crowley related offshoots. Shamanism (and i use the term loosely as one that covers many different though fundamentally similar methods of living from 'primitive' times) suggests a similar power resides in each individual. It is an idea I am rather fond of, and I am loath to allow others to think for me, be they preachers from the church of modern science or any other faith based beleif mode (as science most certainly is) .
You might also want to check out gnosticism. Crowley's view of christian symbolism was highly influenced by gnosticism. There's a reason why he called the Mass the GNOSTIC mass.
Someone mentioned that Scientology made more sense than Thelema.. I do believe that L.R. Hubbard was a "follower" of Crowley's for a time. And do a wikipedia on Scientology..I think it actually has the details of the reputed higher level teachings...SOO..with that in mind there can be different levels of various religions..especially newer ones that are not very well known......
What gets me is..the local Thelemite on the boards has already gotten defensive against the Creators..when they have yet to offend... he is just jumping to the conclusion.. I wonder if Thelema has a fleet of attorneys on hand like the Scientologists do.
zeutheir wrote:The name of the people who "design" the site, where it says at the bottom is "Darbyite Design"...I checked Wikipedia and it redirected me to Plymouth Brethren from searching Darbyites...
EDIT: Just got this from BrethrenPedia
The Brethren were also influential, albeit it in a very negative and tangential manner, in the formation of Thelema, the occult religion created by Aleister Crowley, the noted esotericist.
