Exclusive Brethren?

toomuchtime · Post by **toomuchtime** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:18 pm

Here's a theory I've been playing around with:

Crowley was raised in the Exclusive Brethern, specifically the Darbyite sect of the EB, which as someone mentioned is the name of those who design this website (Darbyite Designs I believe?). According to Peebs.net, this is a very exclusive, very strict Christian denomination that basically forbids contact with anyone who is not of that religion, including internet contact, although I read that they have slackened the rules in recent time to allow for new technologies to be acceptable. Frequently they are homeschooled. Often leaving the church means being ostracized by family and friends.

One ex-EB member wrote a book about her awful experiences with it called Behind Closed Doors (hence the "back door" reference, maybe?). The author was from New Zealand. Could they have left NZ because their religion was starting to be criticized as a result of this book?

Also, I found that growing up, Crowley often acted out and as a result, his EB mother started calling him "The Beast." That was from wikipedia, so you guys have probably already come across that.

I'm still working out some kinks in this theory. If her family is EB, and Bree believes the same, why would she have a picture of someone whose Satanic beliefs were created out of his disdain for that religion? And why would her parents allow such a picture in her room, unless they are unaware of Crowley and what he stood for. Only thing I can figure is that she is rebelling against her parents, as Crowley did in his earlier years, not the religion in particular.

One thing that confuses me about Thelema: why would her parents be so strict, almost puritanical, if they are cultists/Satanists? Doesn't fit.

je_danse112 · Post by **je_danse112** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:53 pm

That is really good! Quite the theory.

I just have a few questions...
How do you explain them letting her hang out with Daniel?
What would the ceremony be if she were in fact EB?

Also... Bree said she still maintains her beliefs.

I don't mean to sound like I'm shooting this theory down, just trying to help you cover all the bases

toomuchtime · Post by **toomuchtime** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:38 am

I think after seeing the In the Park video, I'm changing my mind about my theory. EB just doesn't fit with the ceremony thing.

maxuz · Post by **maxuz** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:35 am

i thought about the EB thing too, but the picture of crowley does sorta shoot that down. everything else makes sense though. Daniel does make sense, as he said he went to the religious camp. so he may not be EB, but he's not an outcast from the church.

but, as you said, Thelema would in fact encourage everything that her parents are discouraging (she was taken out of the school in NZ because the kids "did as they pleased" she says that shes going against her parents by doing what she wants to do.) also, it just seems weird to have a crowley shrine, as thelema is very individualized. He wrote the book, but to worship him suggests a cult.

its just weird that all signs point to thelema when what her parents seem to be practicing is the opposite. the only other thing i can figure is that her parents are being strict to teach her to rebel and do what she wills. but.... im not buying it.

i dont want to believe its just shoddy research on the part of the creators. i really hope that isnt the case.

dave · Post by **dave** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:05 pm

maxuz wrote: but the picture of crowley does sorta shoot that down.

If everything is being designed to be internally consistent you're right... but what if that was just a clue. We certainly wouldn't be having this conversation if the crowly picture hadn't shown up.

maxuz · Post by **maxuz** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:41 pm

well, i think we need to establish whether the things left around are clues to be taken out of context, or whether things must be left in context.

out of context, yes it's a picture of crowley, and that could be a clue.

in context, its a picture of crowley in bree's room that has been directly interacted with by characters, showing that they are aware of its existance.

traditionally, the things that characters recognize as something important are supposed to be taken in context: Bree recognizes it as something (or at least the candles directly below it as something i guess. i'm assuming they're related, which may be silly.)

Cassie's posts, those can certainly be seen as clues. and the Numbers purple monkey held up, those certainly can be seen out of context. but the picture in a room bree has consciously decorated? that seems like cheating if its nothing more than symbolic.

(has anyone broached the idea that these videos are a cry for some sort of help, and that she chose those numbers in the hope that someone realizes that she needs aid by then? doubtful, but a fun thought nonetheless.)

NillaWafers · Post by **NillaWafers** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:24 pm

maxuz wrote:well, i think we need to establish whether the things left around are clues to be taken out of context, or whether things must be left in context.

out of context, yes it's a picture of crowley, and that could be a clue.

in context, its a picture of crowley in bree's room that has been directly interacted with by characters, showing that they are aware of its existance.

traditionally, the things that characters recognize as something important are supposed to be taken in context: Bree recognizes it as something (or at least the candles directly below it as something i guess. i'm assuming they're related, which may be silly.)

Cassie's posts, those can certainly be seen as clues. and the Numbers purple monkey held up, those certainly can be seen out of context. but the picture in a room bree has consciously decorated? that seems like cheating if its nothing more than symbolic.

(has anyone broached the idea that these videos are a cry for some sort of help, and that she chose those numbers in the hope that someone realizes that she needs aid by then? doubtful, but a fun thought nonetheless.)

Interesting theory, a cry for help. But what would be stopping her from just posintg a vid, and asking for help? It's not like her parents know about youtube, and I think Daniel would be supportive. Or is there something about Daniel we don't know?

reybeez · Post by **reybeez** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:12 pm

If she was EB they wouldn't have let her have a picture of Crowley on her wall.

Also, I'm one of those crazy so-called Darbyites and although the crowd is fundamental they're not big on Ceremonies except baptism and the Lord's Supper.

BrethrenPedia · Post by **BrethrenPedia** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:01 am

reybeez wrote:If she was EB they wouldn't have let her have a picture of Crowley on her wall.

Also, I'm one of those crazy so-called Darbyites and although the crowd is fundamental they're not big on Ceremonies except baptism and the Lord's Supper.

This was my first thought as well. There aren't any ceremonies or Equinox's in the EB that I am aware of.

However one thing that struck me is that Daniel's name is "DanielBeast". Crowley's mom called him the "beast" of revelation.

kilgoretroutlovesyou · Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:28 am

The Darbyite thing is a little bit of a mislead, I bet.

I mean, it does not look at all as if Bree's family is EB. The bibliomancy doesn't fit. The equinox doesn't quite fit either.

I know these are new revelations in regards to this thread, but now we know that the Darbyite/Bree connection is pretty small. Perhaps, like Crowely, her folks (or even her) used to be this sect, but like Aleister, they strayed.

It could just symbolize how Bree (like Crowley did from the EB) will sway from her original faith into a new way.

BrethrenPedia · Post by **BrethrenPedia** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:10 pm

Do we know if Crowley was exclusive brethren or just regular old brethren?

sparrow · Post by **sparrow** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:18 pm

This just made me remember:

John Nelson Darby (founder of the darbyites) translated a version of the Bible.

Probably not useful.

kilgoretroutlovesyou · Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:13 am

BrethrenPedia wrote:Do we know if Crowley was exclusive brethren or just regular old brethren?

From my research, Aleister was born into, and raised as, EB.
Please prove me wrong though. I want the right data in my head.

BrethrenPedia · Post by **BrethrenPedia** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:32 pm

According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

His father, Edward Crowley, once maintained a lucrative family brewery business and was retired when Aleister Crowley was born. His mother, Emily Bertha Bishop, drew roots from a Devon and Somerset family[citation needed]. Both of his parents were Darbyites, members of the most extreme wing of the Protestant sect known as the Exclusive Brethren[6].

On my BrethrenPedia site, we are trying to figure out which brethren church specifically Aleister grew up in. If you have any info about the Plymouth Brethren please add it on www.brethrenpedia.com