[Voicemail] 1/1/07 Brother VM update

cynicar · Post by **cynicar** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:52 am

Sad Panda wrote:A. Gold star for Posting the thread correctly! <3

Aww, thank you! I was all nervous.

The fact that Bree and Daniel logged into their accounts about the same time gives me hope that it was just someone updating the autoplay vid. As far as the song, here's how I'm parsing the lyrics for now.

Oh, Ill settle down with some old story
About a boy whos just like me
Thought there was love in everything and everyone
Youre so naive!
They always reach a sorry ending
They always get it in the end

I'm guessing this is referring to what happened to when Gemma first tricked him. But after that:

Still it was worth it as I turned the pages solemnly, and then
With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings

He succeeded in killing her and "winning?" Though it was hardly with naivety...

Thoughts?

EliCash · Post by **EliCash** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:04 am

With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings

Well, before this I didn't think he killed Gemma ... now I'm having my doubts. This seems like a "Mission Accomplished" signal to Tachy.

I think you're misreading it. The "ending" of the story he's reading in that verse is explained in the next verse as the character writing something (as OPPOSED to killing her). Here's the best interpretation I've found:

This song is entirely brilliant lyrically, it has several layers of meaning.

1. The songwriter sitting looking out his window, thinking about what to write

2. The songwriter imagining himself in a fairy-tale type story in a book he's reading, as the naive hero

3. The songwriter thinking about his actual mundane life and the band he's in

4. The songwriter speaking to his ex-lovers, who he abandons and doesn't always contact

At the end 1-4 are brought together perfectly by the last few lines.

I would go so far as to say that:

Oh, that wasn't what I meant to say at all
From where I'm sitting, rain
Washing against the lonely tenement
Has set my mind to wander

And the rest of that verse are the best lyrics I can think of outside a Bob Dylan song, and from me that's very high praise indeed.

To me, the key line to the plot here is "It is mightier than swords" (in reference to writing). It appears to me he wrote something to Gemma. This would make sense, too, now that we know she logged in.

diastres · Post by **diastres** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:10 am

cynicar wrote:The fact that Bree and Daniel logged into their accounts about the same time gives me hope that it was just someone updating the autoplay vid.

Yes, but... if it's just that, it'd be nice to know. I'm assuming the Creators have control of that account, not the OpA people, so it's entirely possible. It just makes things difficult on us, since there's no confirmation either way.

I don't know if we should look at the lyrics of the whole song or just the part in the vm. I've been thinking the part in the vm.

I was sold on it being that he succeeded even though he cried... but then Gemma logs in and "At the final moment, I cried" came to mind and made me wonder "Maybe he faltered at the final moment?"

I don't know. It's hard to decide, assuming it's not Gemma logging into her YT account. Afterall, Op could probably get onto it.

Even then, why would Op bring attention to that vid? It just shows what her organization does.

violagoddess · Post by **violagoddess** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:56 am

Aww man, I wish I'd been around earlier! I would have known that song instantly ... I love Belle & Sebastian!!

violagoddess · Post by **violagoddess** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:06 am

Also, the first thing I thought when I heard the line: "I always cry at endings" was that he did kill Gemma. This would be the undeniable "end" of whatever relationship they might have had. He "cried" (literally or metaphorically) because it was so hard for him to have to take her out.

EliCash · Post by **EliCash** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:13 am

Also, the first thing I thought when I heard the line: "I always cry at endings" was that he did kill Gemma. This would be the undeniable "end" of whatever relationship they might have had. He "cried" (literally or metaphorically) because it was so hard for him to have to take her out.

The lyrics don't refer to the "end" of a relationship. They refer to the "end" of a story that the songwriter is reading. Check out my post above.

EternalGoddess · Post by **EternalGoddess** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:16 am

I wonder why he would want to kill her. Yes, she's working for the order, but it doesn't make any sense to kill only her. Maybe he couldn't do it at the last moment, but succeded in another way. Maybe he captured her instead.

violagoddess · Post by **violagoddess** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:16 am

EliCash wrote:
Also, the first thing I thought when I heard the line: "I always cry at endings" was that he did kill Gemma. This would be the undeniable "end" of whatever relationship they might have had. He "cried" (literally or metaphorically) because it was so hard for him to have to take her out.
The lyrics don't refer to the "end" of a relationship. They refer to the "end" of a story that the songwriter is reading. Check out my post above.

Yeah, I do know what you mean. I've always loved that song. I was just taking the part in the VM out of context for the sake of the story ... just trying to brainstorm

diastres · Post by **diastres** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:11 am

EliCash wrote:The lyrics don't refer to the "end" of a relationship. They refer to the "end" of a story that the songwriter is reading. Check out my post above.

The lyrics if you take the whole song into account. However, it wasn't the entire song on the voice mail, so that might not be what we need to consider, but the lyrics of the selection itself.

Just sayin'. I could be wrong, of course.

curriguy · Post by **curriguy** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:15 am

EternalGoddess wrote:I wonder why he would want to kill her. Yes, she's working for the order, but it doesn't make any sense to kill only her. Maybe he couldn't do it at the last moment, but succeded in another way. Maybe he captured her instead.

there is reason to believe that brother was hurt Personally by Gemma. She pretended to love him in order to gain information in February of last year, and then used her knowledge to coordinate an assasination attempt. If these accusations turn out to be true, then killing her would be a satisfying form of revenge.

covedweller · Post by **covedweller** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:27 am

Oh man. I must be on something. Brother gave us a puzzle built around a Belle and Sebastian song.

I do like this song, and it's also notable that the term gay applies to it if you choose either or both definitions!

EliCash · Post by **EliCash** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:04 am

The lyrics if you take the whole song into account. However, it wasn't the entire song on the voice mail, so that might not be what we need to consider, but the lyrics of the selection itself.

Just sayin'. I could be wrong, of course.

I think that's a legitimate point. And of course I can be wrong, as well.

So let me just examine that section, even though I don't think it should be looked at alone:

Oh, Ill settle down with some old story
About a boy whos just like me
Thought there was love in everything and everyone
Youre so naive!
They always reach a sorry ending
They always get it in the end
Still it was worth it as I turned the pages solemnly, and then
With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings

The part I bolded is important and indicates an important shift in the meaning. It's NOT a "sorry ending," as indicated by this unexpected outcome.

The "sorry ending" for him would have been him killing his ex, I think. But the story he was reading DIDN'T have the sorry ending, according to this passage from the song.

It's a victory for "naivety." Not for killing. Even without looking at the rest of the lyrics, I still come to the same conclusion that I don't think Gemma was killed based on the voicemail.

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:43 am

I think that he either killed her or injured her gravely. And its the last few lines that make me think that way.

With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings

We have already been told how naive Brother was when he was in London and how Gemma used him and almost succeeded in getting him killed by the order. So, I think that is a solid clue that Brother did indeed finish the task that Tachyon set for him, but that it was a cruel victory for him. And I know that the song itself has many different, underlying stories, but we cannot use them, we can only interpret what was given to us in reference to the situation we are in.

unrepentant · Post by **unrepentant** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:06 pm

Is it possible that what's significant here is not the lyrics, but the title? "Get me away from here, I'm dying" could be a distress signal.

lookyz · Post by **lookyz** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:11 pm

Is there anything to the use of the artist (Belle and SEBASTIAN) more than the song?

I can't believe it didn't scream out to me earlier...there may not be anything there, I just thought it was notable - given Sebastian is the name Gemma knew him by, no?