0110 "My Dad Said..." [1/5/07]

[generalization]

On the Bree Jonas sibling thing... I had actually stopped reading the forums for a while (no, no one offended me, I just got tired of coming in "too late," or there being 3 pages of discussion on waiting for the video to load, etc.) And I thought on my own about (strangely enough) how it was interesting how much alike the actors do look. My family would often comment on TV shows and stuff about whether the casting director did a good job finding actors who looked enough alike to be siblings in a show or whatever.

I haven't thought real deeply about the time frames and whatnot. just the fact that I think they could pass.

Also, I agree that "The Order" seems to be matriarchal so that's why Bree would be important but Jonas wouldn't necessarily be.

I have enjoyed reading most of the thoughts about whether or not they're related. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Oh, and on an unrelated note... the whole thing about Bree's "father" never wearing a wedding band... My husband only wore a wedding band the weekend of our "ceremony" (we'd actually been married for 5 months before we had a ceremony for pictures and stuff). But we're still very much married.

[sweetie55]

wow! I get on and there's 12 pages. I'm halfway through reading them, but I can't wait to write something about this anymore!!! Everyone is doing a great job analyzing this one! This is what I got out of it so far:

I think this was a great twist to the story! Did not see that one coming! It strikes me odd though that she calls what just happened with her dad a "midlife crisis". When I think of that term, I think of it having more to do with your job mainly. This gets me to thinking that Bree isn't "adopted" per se. I think her "parents" were just kind of like long term baby sitters(except they got too attached to Bree) which would fit in well with that one OpAphid vid adventures in babysitting.

[robtomorrow]

Just to weight in on the Jonas and Bree being siblings debate,

I agree that it being" far-fetched" isn't reason alone to reject it, "far-fetched" has become a hallmark of the series, and there doesn't seem to be any technical arguments against it, such as age difference.

My objection of it is, when you combine how Jonas came into the story, Bree and Daniel on the run with no where to go, then Jonas pops up, a rich kid living alone with a big empty house, offering them resources and a place to stay, which seemed much to convenient at the time. If you add on to that a new twist with Bree and Jonas turning out to be siblings, it goes from being far fetched to just plain stupid.

[Broken Kid]

This discussion of Bree and Jonas as siblings is really interesting. I think there's some really good theories here that folks who don't want to read 13 pages may miss! So let's discuss it in more depth in the Plot Discussion thread. Here's a link to the topic: http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4858

[generalization]

...If you add on to that a new twist with Bree and Jonas turning out to be siblings, it goes from being far fetched to just plain stupid.

Yeah. I kind of had that thought as well.

I was also thinking about the whole original idea. Lets consider that people DIDN'T discover that it's scripted and everything... With the story going like this, how long did they really expect people to believe it? But that's totally beside the point.

[Joyleaf]

Does anyone remember the video which she snuck out, (0032 - I'm Going to the Party!) and her father was absolutely furious at her and put her on house arrest for doing so, (0033 - House Arrest)? Those two videos, particularly House Arrest seem more significant now. Her father was furious that she put herself outside and in possible danger of being caught by the Order, or possibly in danger of harming herself before completing the ceremony.

I think that Bree's sheltered existance and short leash make a lot of sense if she is any of the following, and especially if more than one comes into play:

--She's specially bred for the ceremony, or in some other way was essential and irreplaceable in whatever she was heading for.

--She'd been specially, intensively prepped for the ceremony (that must take time, money, the right circumstances, good purity status).

--She was a secret that needed not to get out--stolen baby, genetically special, etc.

--Other people were interested in her already, and her family had been moving to evade them.

what about tach? could that be bree's sister?

I'm surprised that in a 12-page thread, you're the first one to mention this theory. This possibility occurred to me at about the 3rd or 4th page.

I was busy typing out a whole thing detailing why I thought this didn't work, when I realized it could, actually.

Tachyon's sister was the one that was 16 or 17 (around Bree's age, by Gemma's recollection) when she was picked for the ceremony, when Gemma was about 8. It's generally been assumed that this sister was older than Tachyon.

If Gemma was in university in London, she's probably a little older than Bree--I'd guess she's at least 18. If Tachyon is in her mid-20s, as seems to be generally assumed/agreed based upon an age previously listed on her YT profile then the ages work fine for her to have an older sister.

The girl in Gemma's story went through with the ceremony. Then the family disappeared abruptly.

Okay. So if we're talking about Bree being Tachyon's sister, she's obviously not the same sister.

But what if Tachyon had another sister? What if her family is the special bloodline, and if they had a third daughter taken away from them, to be raised by a family either untraumatized or otherwise perceived to be better to raise a special ceremony baby?

[omegawoman]

ok people i've notied that alot of people are going down the line of bree and Jonas being siblings as a result of the revelation of bree's parents not being her natural parents (my assumption being this i some kind of practice fo the order by placing the 'selected' children in the hands of thir best families)

but my simple question is why do we assume that it must be jonas when i could just as easily be daniel?

the answer to this is i guess that its because we are all so keen to see Bree and Daniel together

or is it just because we have assumed that Jonas is more likely because of the larger age gap between Bree and Jonas (2 years i think as apposed to 1 and a bit with Daniel)

but i have to admit that as soon as i heard her say that they were not her natual parent that i instantly thought of Jonas to

but if bree does in fact have a sibling isnt it possible that it it is infact 'Brother' which kind of makes more sense as both are in the orderand that makes more sense than one in and out as the Jonas theory would suggest

Could it be Daniel? Why are his parent's so "hands-off"? Are Daniels parents not really his biological parents either that did not become attached to him as Bree's father seemed to do?

[iamcool]

maybe thats why her family went after the ceremony... they didnt need to be with her anymore because they werent her real parents, like what has happened with bree, and bree's "dad" didnt want to lose bree so he wanted to stop the ceremony

[Chartreuse]

Hmm, hamster being a synonym for guinea pig? I mean, if you put "guinea pig" as a youtube tag, it would split them up. It would add "guinea" and "pig" as tags, separately. So maybe "hamster" has something to do with Bree being used for genetic testing. Like, maybe she was genetically modified before she was born or even concieved... and she's the test for an entirely new kind of technology or person.

!!!!

Anybody ever see the movie Twins?? It's starring Arnold Schwartzenegger (sp? ...) and Danny DeVito. The basic premise of the movie is that they genetically created the perfect human being using all of the best traits from multiple fathers. Arnold was the perfect man, but all of the reject DNA came out as a twin... Danny. (LOL-able... just LOOK at them!) But anyhow, that's what I started thinking when I started thinking about hamster.

And just as I was about to type "it's a shame Jonas is too old to be a "twin"... I thought CASSIE. Maybe Cassie ISN'T Bree's imaginary friends, or schizo Bree. Maybe Cassie is Bree's genetic reject twin. Maybe she was put in Daniel's class so that Bree wouldn't even begin to suspect. Maybe that's why Cassie never got into trouble for the prank calls. Maybe they were just separated.

Hmm.

[lookinginonyou]

I think her "parents" were just kind of like long term baby sitters(except they got too attached to Bree) which would fit in well with that one OpAphid vid adventures in babysitting.

I like the reference. Could be interesting to see that fleshed out.

[lookinginonyou]

But what if Tachyon had another sister? What if her family is the special bloodline, and if they had a third daughter taken away from them, to be raised by a family either untraumatized or otherwise perceived to be better to raise a special ceremony baby?

So, this is why Tachyon is so adamantly against the Order, possibly?

[Joyleaf]

But what if Tachyon had another sister? What if her family is the special bloodline, and if they had a third daughter taken away from them, to be raised by a family either untraumatized or otherwise perceived to be better to raise a special ceremony baby?

So, this is why Tachyon is so adamantly against the Order, possibly?

It would make for an interesting (lonstanding, seething) motivation.

Especially if you add in Tachyon's mention of her childhood angst of not being the special one--I mean, how much worse would that be, if you were the filling in a rejection sandwich?

And... it also makes more room for another thing that's been annoying me. I mean, a kid whose older sibling went through something so dramatic that her family uprooted and moved extremely suddenly, and the whole weird process leading up to it (ceremony prep, etc.) does not strike me as the kind of person that you would allow to accelerate up the ranks of your secret organization.

Baggage = security risk... no pun intended. Emotional baggage. That situation's got double agent written all over it.

However, if she's one of a special bloodline, or otherwise special, it would make sense to keep her close. Put her to work on the inside, keep an eye on her.

If that's what happened, though, things did not go to plan.

[autumneternal]

But what if Tachyon had another sister? What if her family is the special bloodline, and if they had a third daughter taken away from them, to be raised by a family either untraumatized or otherwise perceived to be better to raise a special ceremony baby?

So, this is why Tachyon is so adamantly against the Order, possibly?

That would seem to make a whole load of sense if the Creators want to try to tie the LG15 storyline into the OpAphid/Tachyon/10033 storyline.

I know that, if two of my sisters were taken for the purposes of performing the ceremony I'd be pretty livid against whoever it was who took them.

[autumneternal]

It would make for an interesting (lonstanding, seething) motivation.

Especially if you add in Tachyon's mention of her childhood angst of not being the special one--I mean, how much worse would that be, if you were the filling in a rejection sandwich?

And... it also makes more room for another thing that's been annoying me. I mean, a kid whose older sibling went through something so dramatic that her family uprooted and moved extremely suddenly, and the whole weird process leading up to it (ceremony prep, etc.) does not strike me as the kind of person that you would allow to accelerate up the ranks of your secret organization.

Baggage = security risk... no pun intended. Emotional baggage. That situation's got double agent written all over it.

However, if she's one of a special bloodline, or otherwise special, it would make sense to keep her close. Put her to work on the inside, keep an eye on her.

If that's what happened, though, things did not go to plan.

What ^you^ said. You put it into words much better than I was able to.

[Lord Balto]

I can't help seeing here an element of the Quizatz Haderach in Dune, the multigenerational managing of a bloodline to produce the "expected one." In Dune, too, the final result was supposed to be female. There is a precedent for this in mainstream religions. It's the principle of matriarchy, and its justification is fairly obvious. It's not always obvious if a man's son was actually his biological child, but a woman's daughter is always her biological daughter, unless the local priesthood invents some weird notion of impregnation by an invisible deity.

Though I refuse to discuss Dune in any way shape or form, I'm glad you commented becuase you're absolutely right and this helped me solidify some things I think I had been abstractly thinking about as well.

Plus...I think a lot of people forget about things like the Cult of Mary in Catholicism which is considered a "mainstream" thing (Catholicism that is). Mary's importance in several different cultures/ groups is equal to or greater than that of Jesus. In our culture, for oh-so-many reasons, I think we're inclined to assume that men are regarded as more important.

And very early in the history of the Church, too. I was just reading some of the Christiam apocrypha in the service of a chronology project of mine, and there's actually a Book of Mary, in which she is supposed to have had a virgin birth with all the fixins.

And one of the reasons the Egyptian kings were likely to marry their sisters was that the royal bloodline resided in the daughters of the pharaohs. Hmmm. Didn't think about that before, but if the Egyptian references are serious, there's a good reason to think of Bree as the inheritor of whatever position the Order wishes to confirm her in. Perhaps just so they can marry her to whatever male leader they have in mind. The Egyptian system was transitionary in this regard. There is every reason to believe that the early Syrians, of whom Abraham was a king, had no tradition at all of succession of the king's son. Take Joshua for example. He was the son of a nobody named Nun, but his mother may very well have been Miriam, the sister of Moses and thus a legitimate claimant to the throne of Israel.

In further regard to her adoption, remember that organizations like the Tibetan Buddhist monks like to remove the newly "recognized" Lama from his family and place him in a monastery for his education.

...If you add on to that a new twist with Bree and Jonas turning out to be siblings, it goes from being far fetched to just plain stupid.

Yeah. I kind of had that thought as well.

I was also thinking about the whole original idea. Lets consider that people DIDN'T discover that it's scripted and everything... With the story going like this, how long did they really expect people to believe it? But that's totally beside the point.

Perhaps they are not brother and sister but intended husband and wife, making Jonas the intended ruler of the Order. Just a thought, not a well developed theory.