0110 "My Dad Said..." [1/5/07]

[robtomorrow]

There is absolutly no connection between Freemasonry and Satanworship or child abuse. That article is very propagandistic and I think it is always important to follow the sourse of the article to see who is saying such things, if you look at the bottom of the article you have.

Followers of Jesus Christ Ministries
POB 4174
Evansville, Indiana 47724-4174

Here is a link to their website.http://www.followersofjesuschrist.org/

No one's saying there's any connection. I found this website a long time ago and dismissed it thinking it had no connection and was, well, utterly disgusting. But we were on the topic so I thought I'd share what I'd read. I don't think Freemasonry has anything to do with Bree. I'm taking no stock in that information in connection with Freemasonry and didn't think anyone else would either.

Other resources have spoken about this; organizations for healing of those abused in rituals and so forth. That website was just the most shocking one I found. If you're looking for reliable sources, they also exist.

Also, remember that not even the creators are specialists in occult religions and rituals. They are going of the same sources, assumptions, and connections that we are. Though we are meant to believe this is a real life situation and "case to solve" it isn't. It has been suspected many times that the creators aren't using an specific religion or case as a reference for their story.

I understand what you are saying, but the article that you linked to was particularly outrageous, Freemasonry has a long and dignified history, most of the signers of the declaration of independence were Freemasons, including Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington, and Freemasons would take issue with you in saying it is either a religion, cult or associated with the occult. They would call it a fraternal organization.

Also just to note; President Gerald R. Ford who was just laid to rest this last week was also a Freemason.

wikipedia has a good article on the history of Freemasonry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Freemasonry

The Hermetical Order of the Golden Dawn is an offshoot, or rather a bastard child of Freemasonry and was more associated with the occult, and in turn Aleister Crowley , Thelema, and the OTO.

Although I'm sure some would take issue this that as well.

[onetruegnome]

And just as I was about to type "it's a shame Jonas is too old to be a "twin"... I thought CASSIE. Maybe Cassie ISN'T Bree's imaginary friends, or schizo Bree. Maybe Cassie is Bree's genetic reject twin. Maybe she was put in Daniel's class so that Bree wouldn't even begin to suspect. Maybe that's why Cassie never got into trouble for the prank calls. Maybe they were just separated.

Nope. Genetic twins look exactly alike. I doubt Bree would think it was completely normal if her mirror image was walking around school.

Cassie could a) be an alter (other personality created to "deal" with Bree's screwed up life).

Maybe "Cassie" was the name given to her by her real parents.

[spaciegirlreturn]

The Hermetical Order of the Golden Dawn is an offshoot, or rather a bastard child of Freemasonry and was more associated with the occult, and in turn Aleister Crowley , Thelema, and the OTO.

Although I'm sure some would take issue this that as well.

[kristin]

The gap between their disappearance and the time period in which Bree was born is another bone to pick when the sibling theory is brought up. Perhaps such a payoff had conditions of nondisclosure to it and they were violated, leading the Order to believe they needed to eliminate Jonas' parents, but they assumed that the son wouldn't know anything about it, since he was so young still at the time, and his parents somehow left information about Bree behind for him that Jonas later discovered and connected to the girl he saw on YouTube. Perhaps this is also an unconfirmed suspicious for him, as it is for us.

Hi Kristin, good first post. Your last item, in particular, is interesting. I think we may be ascribing a bit too much omnipotence to the Order. Picking off a sailing vessel east of Hawaii and all. But if what you say is at all near the mark, we have to wonder how Jonas found out what happened to his parents. Did he see them leave the pier? Why wasn't he aboard? They just left him in their big old house while they sailed off to Avalon? Strange. Sounds like some kind of cover story. After all, when everyone here heard it originally they thought it was kind of peculiar and unbelievable.

Perhaps his parents didn't intentionally leave a message but left enough clues around for Jonas to put 2 and 2 together. He seems to be a bright enough fellow.

What really bothers me about these last few episodes, though, is the passive response of everyone involved. These bums just murdered Bree's father! BANG! You're dead! At the very least the police would be looking for his relatives, including Bree. At the most, she'd be front and center at the local police station spilling the beans on the Order and everyone connected with it. Somewhere in between, they'd be launching a little revenge squad and gearing up for action. I mean, this guy didn't die of a heart attack. He was gunned down in broad daylight by a bunch of Enochian mumbling lunatics.

You make some good points, too, Lord Balto. I am also confused at the lack of police response to Bree's dad's supposed murder. Perhaps they were questioned on the matter and it simply wasn't chronicled in any of the videos, but that seems insufficient. Maybe, as Bree said, the Order is everywhere and the police officers who responded to the incident covered up any real crime that occurred and stifled further investigation, playing it off as some prank call by a bunch of teenagers at the scene -- just an idea.

But anyway, thinking more along the lines of the Jonas-and-Bree theory, maybe like many couples his parents used IVF to conceive Jonas and had multiple embryos created and frozen in a lab, and the Order offered to sponsor the whole procedure or just give a big payoff in exchange for the leftover materials once the couple had conceived Jonas successfully.

I agree the sailing bit seems like a coverup, and if the Order did off the parents, it was probably under different circumstances. As far as Jonas' whereabouts are concerned, maybe this was just a couple who got a bit carried away with their newfound wealth and turned into jet-setting, neglectful parents who were accustomed to dumping their kid off with a nanny...who knows?

[sweetie55]

Or maybe Cassie is one of her "parents" daughter! Maybe she wasn't allowed to live with her parents, but once they came in the area that Cassie was assigned to live in she could go visit by becoming Bree's friend.
Cassie becomes extremely jealous of Bree(because her biological parent showed her the affection she always wanted but never got), tries to sabotage whatever the Order has in plan for Bree. The other "parent" catches on to this plan and gets her taken away. We assume she escaped.
Cassie's legit mom/dad finds out and before the ceremony comes underway decides that he/she does not want something as bad or worse to happen to Bree. Thus starts the running away with Daniel!

LOL that was one farfetched and confusing plot!

[Lord Balto]

The Hermetical Order of the Golden Dawn is an offshoot, or rather a bastard child of Freemasonry and was more associated with the occult, and in turn Aleister Crowley , Thelema, and the OTO.

Although I'm sure some would take issue this that as well.

I'd agree about most modern versions of the Freemasons. An uncle of mine was a mason and my aunt was in the auxillary, and the masons took care of their retarded daughter when they died. A perfectly legitimate social organization. And the bit about Washington is correct. The Masonic lodge was the only place they could plot the revolution in secret, so there was no direct connection.

I'm not quite so sure about earlier incarnations of those organizations. The Wiki link is interesting, but the enumeration of various theories is deceptive. As in the case of Crowley, the members of various organizations would join other organizations or found their own, so the same founding individuals may have been involved in more than one group and taken elements from each. The one thing that links the Masons and the Occultists is an overriding interest in Egypt, and that link is important.

And the symbolism of the actual Masonic rite involves a small pyramid or set of stairs, so that they are at least claiming symbolically to be descendants of the builders of the pyramids. Again, as I said before, though there is little evidence for it, Medieval Arab historians associate the building of the pyramids with Enoch as a preparation for the Flood. So there's your connection among the Masons, the Illuminati, the Golden Dawn, Aleister Crowley, and Lonely Girl's Order.

[AM]

I am also confused at the lack of police response to Bree's dad's supposed murder. Perhaps they were questioned on the matter and it simply wasn't chronicled in any of the videos, but that seems insufficient.

I would say that giving insufficient information is right in keeping with what the creators have been doing all along; Raising more questions than they answer. At the beginning of the 'Bree's dad is dead' video it sounds like a police radio when they are driving along. I assume the only reason they would know he is dead is from police/news reports and that that is what those short clips were meant to indicate. They didn't stick around the murder scene and check his pulse so how else would they know?

My guess is it was on the 'Breenivers' news but not chronicled in the videos because that would ruin the cool illusion of blurred lines between the Breeniverse and our world. KWIM?

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

the order is not foolish..... i bet they can get away with murder.

[robtomorrow]

The Hermetical Order of the Golden Dawn is an offshoot, or rather a bastard child of Freemasonry and was more associated with the occult, and in turn Aleister Crowley , Thelema, and the OTO.

Although I'm sure some would take issue this that as well.

I'd agree about most modern versions of the Freemasons. An uncle of mine was a mason and my aunt was in the auxillary, and the masons took care of their retarded daughter when they died. A perfectly legitimate social organization. And the bit about Washington is correct. The Masonic lodge was the only place they could plot the revolution in secret, so there was no direct connection.

I'm not quite so sure about earlier incarnations of those organizations. The Wiki link is interesting, but the enumeration of various theories is deceptive. As in the case of Crowley, the members of various organizations would join other organizations or found their own, so the same founding individuals may have been involved in more than one group and taken elements from each. The one thing that links the Masons and the Occultists is an overriding interest in Egypt, and that link is important.

And the symbolism of the actual Masonic rite involves a small pyramid or set of stairs, so that they are at least claiming symbolically to be descendants of the builders of the pyramids. Again, as I said before, though there is little evidence for it, Medieval Arab historians associate the building of the pyramids with Enoch as a preparation for the Flood. So there's your connection among the Masons, the Illuminati, the Golden Dawn, Aleister Crowley, and Lonely Girl's Order.

I don't claim to be an expert on Freemasonry, what I know is only what I have read, The Spirit of Masonry by Foster Bailey is an interesting book on the subject. it gives an account of the teachings of Freemasonry, I would be hard pressed to give a good synopsis of it, it is pretty involved, but the impression that you get is definatley not anything I would call the occult, they claim that their teachings devrive from ancient mysterys that predate the bible.

Here is quote for the book jacket

Masonry is a spiritual quest. The right function of modern Masonry is to be the builder of each man's unseen temple of life. We are concerned with true life values and right human relations. We inculcate self-control, honesty, justice, mercy, morality, personal integrity and brotherhood as the necessary foundation for spiritual growth. Indeed the goal of every Mason is growth in understanding of spiritual values; the achieving of mastery of life itself is perfected in our succeeding initiations.

You seem to be dismissing the importance that Freemasons played in the American Revolution by saying the Masonic Lodge was the only place they could meet. I think they took Freemasonry more seriously, and Greorge Washington was not the only Freemason, as I said most of the signers of the declaration of idependence were Freemasons. Benjamin Franklin was the Grand Master of the Masons of Pennsylvania.

You are right that at the time of the founding of the Hermitical Order of the Golden Dawn that some individuals were involved in more that one of the organizations Aleister Crowley was a Freemason and a member of the HOGD as was Mathers the founder. But that does not reflect on the Freemasons themselves, and that is what I meant about them being the bastard child of Freemasonry.

Also at the time, early 20th century, the occult was a popular thing, there were clairvoyants and spiritualists on every street corner, communicating with the spirit world was almost as popular as the Internet is today. It was also the time of Harry Houdini who besides being a magician and escape artist made it his personal mission to debunk the charlatan spiritualists.

[AM]

the order is not foolish..... i bet they can get away with murder.

Sure, by making it appear like a random car jacking or mugging gone wrong. Not, in Bree's dad's case, by covering up that the person was killed at all. For that, they would do something like send them on a long sailing trip, not stage a murder in a public parking garage...

[kwicherbichen]

My dad wusn't muh reuul dayd....

What a twang!

[minsky]

Yay, I got something right. I had a feeling they were not her real parents. I posted a theory about this back in the "on the Run" vid mid last year.

Here is the extract. and the link
http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic ... ght=#60902

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:19 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmm. The way the parents left with Lucy and the Baldy dude without any struggle bugged me. Then I did some thinking of possible scenarios.

Someone mentioned Bree's Parents look really young and I agree.
I have a theory that may be far fetched but sort of fits with what has been going on lately.

What if Bree's parents are not her real parents.

What if Bree was identified as a baby as being important. maybe born from a previous ceremony where the parents dissapreared for whatever reason.

So the order gets two trusted members of the order to look after her and groom her for the ceremony.

So these two become Bree's parents. Anyway they become attached to thier daughter and concerned for her. Even though their purpose is to bring her up ready for the ceremony.

Bree decides she does not want to do the ceremony and they approach the Order to see if they can get her out it.

The Order gets angry at them because thay have failed in thier mission of preparing Bree for the ceremony and take them away for reprogramming or make them dissappear or whatever.

On the other hand they could be her real Parents and have just resided themselves to the fact that all they can do is go with the order to protect thier daughter.

Just some of my random thoughts

[iamcool]

nobody likes a gloater, thats why i never do it

[iamcool]

but seriously well done!

[Lord Balto]

You seem to be dismissing the importance that Freemasons played in the American Revolution by saying the Masonic Lodge was the only place they could meet. I think they took Freemasonry more seriously, and Greorge Washington was not the only Freemason, as I said most of the signers of the declaration of idependence were Freemasons. Benjamin Franklin was the Grand Master of the Masons of Pennsylvania.

You are right that at the time of the founding of the Hermitical Order of the Golden Dawn that some individuals were involved in more that one of the organizations Aleister Crowley was a Freemason and a member of the HOGD as was Mathers the founder. But that does not reflect on the Freemasons themselves, and that is what I meant about them being the bastard child of Freemasonry.

Also at the time, early 20th century, the occult was a popular thing, there were clairvoyants and spiritualists on every street corner, communicating with the spirit world was almost as popular as the Internet is today. It was also the time of Harry Houdini who besides being a magician and escape artist made it his personal mission to debunk the charlatan spiritualists.

One of the core delusions of American Freemasons is that Freemasonry played a pivotal role in the American Revolution. Masonic efforts to promote this notion have successfully created a mythology that has seeped into mainstream historical texts. Gordon S. Wood reiterates the essential features of American Freemasonry's revolutionary mythology in a 'Pulitzer Prize' winning book, "The Radicalism of the American Revolution". Mr. Wood sets the stage for his story by discussing the cosmopolitan nature of the American Revolution.

http://users.crocker.com/~acacia/text_m ... ution.html

The above is certainly not holy writ, but it raises some interesting questions about the nature of the relationship, if any existed, between the Revolution and the Masons. Certainly, the Masons themselves have a vested interest in perpetuating this supposed relationship, whether it's true or not.

As for Crowley and the Masons, my point was that you can't expect to find a single, pure, ancestor of Masonry, and neither can you exclude any of the multiple branches that the development of masonry followed. I'm not sure calling Crowley a bastard son of Masonry adds anything to the discussion. As you say, there was a great popularity of the occult in Crowley's time, so that one would expect to find it among the members of many organizations. And it was Houdini who thought the Spiritualists were charlatans. This doesn't mean they were all charlatans and it certainly doesn't mean that some of them didn't take it seriously.

As for the Order, I fear that the plot of this little charade is getting to the point where it is about to leave the inhabited universe completely and enter some kind of parallel world in which all the worst delusions of the clinically paranoid become real, where no one can be trusted and nothing is as it seems. In short and in the real world, if there is a conspiratorial organization to which members of the police belong, it is the Fraternal Order of Police and not the Illuminati or the Sons of Mephistopheles.