My Helper [9.28.06]

luma · Post by **luma** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:59 pm

M80mayhem wrote:I posted a piece of web page in the "Strange Tags" discussion about the phytoplankton tag and what Google came up with when I added the term "Thelema". Feel free to check it out there or do a google search to see what else you can come up with.

M80mayhem has an interesting theory going...

I have posted some similar thoughts also over at the "Strange Tags" discussion.

Jeet_DM · Post by **Jeet_DM** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:58 pm

From the look of the previous video I believe that Lucy "the helper" has been a part of the ceremony. She has probably done it before and shes helping Bree fell safer... Which suck because it might mean there won't be that OMG she gonna get killed idea.

Flautapantera · Post by **Flautapantera** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:18 pm

Jeet_DM wrote:From the look of the previous video I believe that Lucy "the helper" has been a part of the ceremony. She has probably done it before and shes helping Bree fell safer... Which suck because it might mean there won't be that OMG she gonna get killed idea.

I agree with Lucy having prior experience with the ceremony. I'm not sure if anyone is essentially going to die though. That would be terrible!

minsky · Post by **minsky** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:28 pm

No matter what happens with this ceremony thing I am starting to think that this cult/religion is more matriachal based than patriachal.

My reasoning is below.

Proving Science wrong. Daddy is a scientist (and of course a male)

Oxen - Bree thinking she is the stronger than Daniel

Vid where she wants to go to the party and they say no. She mentions mum normally takes her side. (most families I know that have girls, The girl is closer to the father)

The helper(she actually calls her a councilor) is female.

Her dad reads the bibliomancy - she states that he always does it. Possibly not to many males to choose from. (I am starting to see this as more a servant role than an important role, let the male do the work whilst we enjoy the festival)

I came up with an interesting link between phytoplankton (YT tag) and earthmother (posted in tags area)

MOM is going to help her with the exercises for ceremony (maybe more knowledge of the religion than dad)

Problems with my theory - Alister Crowley picture and most of the people she seems to admire, scientist etc are male.

So, I predict that Daniel is going to end up as the sacrifice, if there is one at all. I am again using the fact that she was not that p!ssed that Daniel was following her around.

I stated this previously, if it was me I would be furious and it would be the first thing I addressed in my video, not tacked onto the end like an after thought. Maybe baiting Daniel so that he continues to watch and shows up at the ceremony. HMMM.

Sorry I wrote so much. I need another video NOWWWWWWWWWWWW

M

lordgreystoke422 · Post by **lordgreystoke422** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:40 pm

Farva wrote:I just get the vibe Cassie was somebody that Daniel knew...which would make it more unlikely that she was actually Bree. Now wait, I just hit on an interesting notion...

Bree
Cassie
Daniel

Who is the A and who is the E?

Andrea=A?

goblynn · Post by **goblynn** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:54 pm

minsky wrote:MOM is going to help her with the exercises for ceremony (maybe more knowledge of the religion than dad)

Good possibility...I just can't get past the idea of dear old mom teaching her how to do Kegel exercises. (Which would be beyond weird.)

lordgreystoke422 · Post by **lordgreystoke422** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:03 pm

I have a strong problem with Bree saying Daniel wasn't there for her. And then says stop following her. HELLO!!! Does not compute..Does not compute. I understand stalking does not constitute being there for her...but I really don't think Daniel is maliciously stalking her. Some of you may be hacked at Daniel for giving her an ultimatum. Consider that it was Daniel who was the one initially given the ultimatum. "Well maybe we can't have you coming around anymore" was what Daniel was told when he said he didnt want to film the play. HELLO! How would YOU feel about a religion that was being forced upon you and yet when you try to get more information about it you find out that the people trying to force it on you don't even know what they are involved in.
How can Bree say Daniel has not been there for her? Has she forgetten that during the play when she saw Daniel smiling at her from the audience that she got "really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,really, really, really,really,really,really,really excited? Bree is being manipulated by people that frankly(assuming it is Thelema or another Crowley based religon) do not follow their own teachings and have perverted their religion into something it was never intended to be.

toadlguy · Post by **toadlguy** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:27 pm

minsky -

I'm not going tyo quote you, because it's just too looong. But half your points can be attributable to the general superiority of women over men (and I'm a guy).

minsky · Post by **minsky** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:46 pm

toadlguy wrote:minsky -

I'm not going tyo quote you, because it's just too looong. But half your points can be attributable to the general superiority of women over men (and I'm a guy).

LOL. my wife would agree you 100%

cuseguy85 · Post by **cuseguy85** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:44 pm

minsky wrote:No matter what happens with this ceremony thing I am starting to think that this cult/religion is more matriachal based than patriachal.

My reasoning is below.

Proving Science wrong. Daddy is a scientist (and of course a male)

Oxen - Bree thinking she is the stronger than Daniel

Vid where she wants to go to the party and they say no. She mentions mum normally takes her side. (most families I know that have girls, The girl is closer to the father)

The helper(she actually calls her a councilor) is female.

Her dad reads the bibliomancy - she states that he always does it. Possibly not to many males to choose from. (I am starting to see this as more a servant role than an important role, let the male do the work whilst we enjoy the festival)

I came up with an interesting link between phytoplankton (YT tag) and earthmother (posted in tags area)

MOM is going to help her with the exercises for ceremony (maybe more knowledge of the religion than dad)

Problems with my theory - Alister Crowley picture and most of the people she seems to admire, scientist etc are male.

So, I predict that Daniel is going to end up as the sacrifice, if there is one at all. I am again using the fact that she was not that p!ssed that Daniel was following her around.

I stated this previously, if it was me I would be furious and it would be the first thing I addressed in my video, not tacked onto the end like an after thought. Maybe baiting Daniel so that he continues to watch and shows up at the ceremony. HMMM.

Sorry I wrote so much. I need another video NOWWWWWWWWWWWW

M

I do have some problems with ur theory.

The proving science wrong always seems like more of a joke than anything she is seriously trying to do. Like the Guns Germs and Steel, when she says DB is a domesticated animal.

Do we actually know that Bree was referring to herself as the stronger oxen, or is that just speculation?

Some but not all families. Some girls whom I know have fathers that are rediculously overprotective, which could be the case here.

It could very well be that her mom and the councelor have gone through the ceremony before, because maybe it has something to do with pure women, in which case her father would not know the exercises and such, as he was never a pure woman who could go through the ceremony.

And her father could very well be some high standing official in the religion, and that is why he does it. Or it could be that the tradition was passed down from father to son, or something along those lines.

Dont know about the phytoplankton and the earthmother, but I think u get my point

Nora Volkova · Post by **Nora Volkova** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:57 pm

OMG, this:

cuseguy85 wrote: Dont know about the phytoplankton and the earthmother, but I think u get my point

has got to be my absolute favorite sentence ever uttered in 20 years of fandom.

minsky · Post by **minsky** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:24 pm

cuseguy85 wrote:
I do have some problems with ur theory.

The proving science wrong always seems like more of a joke than anything she is seriously trying to do. Like the Guns Germs and Steel, when she says DB is a domesticated animal.

Looks to me more like making fun of her dad and his profession.

cuseguy85 wrote: Do we actually know that Bree was referring to herself as the stronger oxen, or is that just speculation?

Speculation, however logic would tell me that being that she is telling the story that she would think she is the stronger of the two.

cuseguy85 wrote: Some but not all families. Some girls whom I know have fathers that are rediculously overprotective, which could be the case here.

Yes quite possibly

cuseguy85 wrote: It could very well be that her mom and the councelor have gone through the ceremony before, because maybe it has something to do with pure women, in which case her father would not know the exercises and such, as he was never a pure woman who could go through the ceremony.

Yes maybe, but why is her mum not allowed to attend the ceremony if she had gone through it before?

cuseguy85 wrote:And her father could very well be some high standing official in the religion, and that is why he does it. Or it could be that the tradition was passed down from father to son, or something along those lines.

Again yes this is also possible

cuseguy85 wrote:Dont know about the phytoplankton and the earthmother, but I think u get my point

It's all good, everyone is allowed thier opion. I know everyone is thinking they are Thelema, however I am wondering if the creators would risk using an actual religion and possibly getting them upset over the whole thing.

M

Way2Curious · Post by **Way2Curious** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:24 pm

I'm thinking that the creators might not be all that worried about possibly misrepresenting a real religion. I say this because generally movies, tv shows and most other forms of entertainment mis-represent (or show in a bad light) even very common religions all the time. Also there is the possiblity that the entire religion would not be involved. One stray group or off-shoot from a religion does not indicate the actions of all of all of the main religions groups or followers, especially if said off-shoot is fictional...........

In terms of whether Bree's "religion" is more male dominanted or female dominated, I think I would need to hear more about her mother to decide that. However, I think it should be mentioned that it looks like her father is the main decision maker in the household, and I'm inclined to think it would be reversed (or at least equal) if they were involved in a female dominated religion. Many religions (some of which even discriminate against women) have females who "counsel" women or girls who attempt to rebel.

Temposs · Post by **Temposs** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:58 am

Hello, first time I've posted but I think I'm pretty well-versed in the lore and this forum by now.

The important thing to remember about this helper is that she's a sort of religious counselor. If you have forgotten or have not seen an explanation of the oxen story, its concept comes from the Bible. Although I know she is a follower of Thelema, it is not unbelievable for them to use concepts from Christianity, as Thelema is sort of an amalgamation of different religions. There is a passage in 1 Corinthians 7 that explains exactly what Bree is talking about here.

In fact, it is the verse that Christians often use to justify a policy of only being in romantic relationships with those of similar faith. The strength she refers to is strictly her faith, which she clearly has much more of, in the case of Thelema.

My guess is that Bree told the helper about Daniel, and the helper told Bree this story to discourage her from being tempted to be close to him. The helper also probably told Bree the bit about Daniel deciding he wasn't gonna be there for her.

I think pretty much any of the assertions Bree made in this video came directly from the helper, and we shouldn't take them as something Bree would say naturally.

As for what the ceremony is, I think it is not a sacrifice but moreso a sexual magick ritual. I'm thinking something along the lines of a Geisha's virginity being sold to the highest bidder, except without the money.

I did a detailed analysis on the keyword "bastirma" from the "My Difficult Decision" video. Bastirma may be a ruse. If you click on the tag, it brings up one video in the search(same for phytoplankton, but a different video). The one video for bastirma is called "mulohia", more commonly spelled "molokheya". This is an Egyptian vegetable that is very healthy, and Cleopatra used it as a source of health and beauty. As Crowley was a drug user, I also found that the famous Egyptian narcotic Khat is often smuggled by being labeled molokheya. Khat is also the word for "body" in Egyptian, and I found this reference on a Thelema website in which khat was related to sexual magick. http://www.ashe-prem.org/five/adams.shtml It says there they worship the body more than the spirit. This ceremony could be a worshipping of Bree's body. The khat smuggling also reveals to me a metaphor that Bree is doing something she thinks is healthy and good(molokheya), when it's really not good(khat).

Well, this last paragraph was just me having fun. I doubt I made connections the writers expected. But the information is useful regardless.

spaciegirlreturn · Post by **spaciegirlreturn** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:07 am

I have a feeling that what Bree's religion is, in her mind, is something close to true Thelema - which is not really malignant or dark at all. I also have a feeling that at this ceremony she will find out that some of these people she's been practicing with, particularly (possibly) the order of dendereh have different ideas and beliefs than her. I am not positive she will die, but I think she's in for a shock. I also think we're about to meet Cassie...dead or alive.