logic issues with cliffhangers

[Marbella]

KTS.. Yeah.. I've always wondered why they don't just go on wireless.

[Terryfic]

You all seem to be missing the point. It is not an issue with how or why they upload the videos. It is how they construct the videos.

The videos are not being broadcast live, regardless of what anyone tries to claim on that point, the editing shows that. Therefore there is some kind of delay between shooting the video and releasing the video. If logically during that delay the ‘cliffhanger’ should have been resolved than it should not be a part of the video. That is, unless they want to be jerks and make everyone think they are in a lot of danger, even though said danger came and went hours ago and they are fine now.

My concern is that they are setting a bad precedent for future mock-vlog series to simply ignore the writing elements that make this genre what it is.

[platypusrex256]

You all seem to be missing the point. It is not an issue with how or why they upload the videos. It is how they construct the videos.

The videos are not being broadcast live, regardless of what anyone tries to claim on that point, the editing shows that. Therefore there is some kind of delay between shooting the video and releasing the video. If logically during that delay the ‘cliffhanger’ should have been resolved than it should not be a part of the video. That is, unless they want to be jerks and make everyone think they are in a lot of danger, even though said danger came and went hours ago and they are fine now.

My concern is that they are setting a bad precedent for future mock-vlog series to simply ignore the writing elements that make this genre what it is.

thankyou! thankyou! thankyou! i have to admit i have an issue explaining things in a way as to be convincing but you do a good job.

its not so much an issue of plot at all. its an issue of staying true to the medium of vlogs and not falling out of character.

the only possible argument against this observation is: "i dont think they are falling out of character at all"

to which i would respond: "then these vlogers are jerks. i can appreciate a good cliffhanger but the cliffhanger should be constructed around the characters being in a bind, not the characters witholding information from the audience."

could i make my point more explicit? probably. but im tired of people telling me im stupid just because they don't understand my argument. ;-p

[curiousGeorge]

I have almost given up on trying to constrain the vids (including how they are shot, edited, and released to us) with any sense of logic and rational analysis. So many tenants have been established and then broken that it is pretty hard to keep track of them all. A large dose of suspension of disbelief (SOD) is required for any fictional work, but this is getting kind of silly.

As part of all of this is solving the "mystery", I think this is a huge problem. If the rules of the game are constantly shifting then the ability to solve the mystery is pretty challenging. Now, this makes it easier for the writers to continue the project ad infinitum, but it will never really lead to the emotional satisfaction that a traditional mystery story involves. Being distracted by things like implausible cliffhangers is just one of many examples...

Rich fantasy worlds are possible to delve into, examples are too numerous to mention. The key is that after a while the reader (viewer, player, etc,) should be so engaged by THE STORY that they forget that they are in the fantasy world and just "go with it". The point I am articulating (probably poorly) is that the reality vlog "issues" are jarring and constantly disrupt this SOD. They are distracting from, what has the potential to be, an interesting medium to tell a story.

As this is somewhat of a new medium (the vlog format) I am willing to give the writers some slack about having a way to work with, and around, this (admittedly limited) delivery mechanism. I just think they need to pay more attention to the original vlog premise of a pseudo-reality. In the end it would make for a more enjoyable and enriching experience for all involved. More satisfying than the clue du jour.

I do think this is fascinating watching how they do this, and I think that it will be a case study for future filmmakers to see what works and what doesn't in this delivery medium. At this point, the whole thing has become kind of an academic analysis of that nature, the story is so lost at this point that is the only thing interesting anymore... I do think the creators are forging new ground to some extent, complete with lots of pratfalls and moments of real Creativity. Interesting.

[gogo]

(First of all, sorry for the length of this post...)

Thank you CG, for your remarks. They allowed me to consider some of the elements that keep me involved as a viewer.

I would agree with your assessment of the elements of mystery, CG. It seems that “clue-finding,” speculation and assessment of potential clues seems to have become a significant part of the fan culture on this board. While I will not dismiss the way anyone else engages with these videos, I will say that I rarely propose theories or seek clues anymore. For me, the process feels rather futile. It could be that I am a viewer who needs closure of smaller, earlier issues, so I can note the patterns or themes that emerge. Therefore, for me, extending energy to focus on issues and ideas that could be “shots in the dark” is just no fun. I am still waiting for some resolution to come from summer and early fall “clues.” (Before someone accuses me of wanting the characters to turn to the camera and ramble off the significance of Crowley, etc., understand that I am not looking for that at all.) I would also agree with CG when he states that the writers are facing a different way to tell this story, so it must be challenging to satisfy all aspect of viewer culture when creating these videos.

There are many people who find seeking out clues and researching these ideas to be an engaging practice with opportunities for socializing on the boards with others. I am happy for them, and I am glad that they have found a fun way to participate with the series. However for me, it is just too frustrating to see pages and pages of discussion on ideas that seemingly will never be resolved. Working so hard in vain is nothing that appeals to me. Even when people seem to get close to figuring something out, it seems that in the next video, a whole new set of potential “clues” come along to create more and more pages of discussion. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with this, but it is not satisfying for me. (As a disclaimer, I do not feel as anyone has any obligation to satisfy me personally.) I have found ways to engage with this story in ways that satisfy me.

I could just be an old dog refusing to learn new tricks. I consider my comments neither as a desire for the writers to call me and check with me to be sure I approve of each script, nor am I being critical of their exploration of this medium of storytelling. Nor am I expecting an Aristotelian approach to this story. Nor am I plotting the points on Freytag’s Pyramid of plot structure (although it might be an interesting practice or pursuit for me personally).

I am not very good at figuring out the ARG clues, but I think I can understand why some people are so eager to do so: these are mysteries and questions with resolutions for those involved. And although I am not particularly interested in the background of this production, I can see why some people are eager to figure out more about the credits in the story (who is playing which characters and their connections to the lg15 franchise): these are questions with attainable answers. (Please let us not get into accusations of stalking for information that is usually listed in a show’s credits, in various newspapers and on showbiz resumes.)

I guess I find myself being a viewer who is interested less in the “clues” and more in how this experiment plays out. I support this series and find some elements quite engaging. For example, Bree had no trouble slipping into a bed with Jonas (who chose the bathtub instead), but Bree had Daniel sleep on the floor after “hooking up/smooching.” This demonstrates the complexity of this character and the fickleness of people's feelings in general, especially after facing a seriously traumatizing situation (witnessing the murder of a father). These are the kinds of elements that keep me involved.

There is space here for all sorts of ways to engage with the story. This kind of “meta-discussion” is interesting to me. I hope we can continue this kind of discussion without being accused of being Negative Nellies, Bitter Bobs or Dismissive Don(na)s. I’d like to think of myself and those interested in this kind of examination to be seen as Deconstructionist Dianas, Analyzing Abes, Supportive Stans and Interested Irenes.

Or something like that…
(Again, sorry for the long blah, blah, blah )