0127 "Miss Me?" (OpAphid) [02/04/07]

[onsweetavenue]

Something about the "spin art" reminded me of mushrooms and LSD. I dunno, he struck me as completely drugged out, and LSD and colors seem to go hand in hand.

The self-experiment showed Dr Hofmann "that LSD-25 behaved as a psychoactive substance with extraordinary properties and potency. There was to my knowledge no other known substance that evoked such profound psychic effects in such extremely low doses, that caused such dramatic changes in human consciousness and our experience of the inner and outer world." Dosage for LSD is measured in micrograms (millionths of a gram). Even these minute doses cause massive effects. LSD tends to lodge in the liver, spleen and kidneys. Only 0.1% of the dose enters the brain and even that remains for only 20 minutes. Thus its powerful effects can be caused by less than 100 nanograms (billionths of a gram) of the substance reaching the brain and these effects continue long after there is no substance left in the brain. LSD is known to cause flashbacks where the patient again experiences the effects of the drug, even many years later. LSD may also be tetragenic and thus the effect of minute doses can be felt even by future generations. At one point LSD was cited by some homœopaths as an example of how microdoses could cause dramatic and long lasting changes in the human body.

These extraordinary properties led to experiments in the use of LSD in psychotherapy, philosophy, and by government agencies looking for ways to manipulate the mind for brainwashing and as a tool for assassination.

And then theres Quinuclidinyl benzilate

Disturbances in level of consciousness
Misperceptions and difficulty in interpretation (delusions, hallucinations)
Poor judgment and insight (denial of illness)
Short attention span, distractibility, impaired memory (particularly recent)
Slurred speech, perseveration
Disorientation
Ataxia
Variability (quiet/restless

also used for mind control because of it's ability to erase memory and the ease of putting a new spin on things:).

Seems more like ecstasy to me. I am a former drug user so I can only give my 2 cents based on personal experience.

Ecstasy changes your whole perspective on things. For me, it made me feel like I loved everything around me, and that love was intense. Total euphoria. While I was on a "roll", my thought process changed, my way of talk changed, and I found myself "in love" with the thoughts and things I would normally not like at all. LSD or acid never did that for me, and I never even heard of BZ, which I think isn't used as a recreational drug, so I wouldn't know anyway.

I've used E, but I've never heard of it being used in experiments for mind control. It very well could have been, but the reason I jumped to LSD was because I knew it was already used in experiments in mind control (btw - soldiers holding equipment while tripping = bad idea. largely unsuccessful )

BZ, which is not a recreational drug at all but a mind control drug that the military and foriegn spies used, I believe met with more success. It lasts about 80 hours long per experience as to 8 horus with LSD.

I have to say LSD has to be one of the most likely drugs to create a varied "trip" from time to time and person to person. Yet if we're basing of our own experiences, a good trip can produce feelings of euphoria and you can try to explain anything negative away to keep your euphoria. LSD for mind control is probably administered differently than plain old street LSD as well (I would assume)

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/lsd-mc-cia.htm

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffa ... 08,00.html

BZ, however, would be a more likely choice for mind control however, of course, harder to obtain. But it's primary purpose I believe was for mind control.

Anyone's guess is as good as the other as to whether he's even drugged or not. I'm sure later it will turn out spin art, pizza, and ice cream meant nothing or meant something completely different and I will feel silly.

[consideration]

This reminded me of the whole Patty Hearst/SLA scandal back in the day, so I looked up a bit about it on Wiki. I found something interesting.

In her trial, which commenced on January 15, 1976, Hearst's attorney claimed that she had been blindfolded, imprisoned in a narrow closet, and physically and sexually abused. The claim that her actions were the result of a concerted brainwashing program was central to her defense. (Hearst's actions have also been attributed to "Stockholm syndrome," in which hostages sympathize with the aims of their captors.)

I looked up a bit more about Stockholm Syndrome.

The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage exhibits loyalty to the hostage-taker, in spite of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases, and bride kidnapping.

That was from Wiki. Not much on the subject, actually.

[onsweetavenue]

could be stockholm syndrome, but usually that takes weeks to develop at bare minimum and daniel's only been gone a short while.

[consideration]

could be stockholm syndrome, but usually that takes weeks to develop at bare minimum and daniel's only been gone a short while.

I read about a case where it took only 5 days.
Add to that, I think Daniel is brainwashed, as well as some possible drug use and/or hypnosis.

Factoring all that in, I don't think it's that unreasonable.

[onsweetavenue]

Not unreasonable at all.

which is why I said "it COULD be stockholm syndrome" and also that it "USUALLY" takes weeks to develop.



Patty Hearst...if you read more information on her, you will see many disagree it was stockholm syndrome and many believe she staged her kidnapping. It's reallly anyone's guess though.

With the Shawn Hornbeck case in the news lately, the subject of stockholm syndrome has been discussed a lot on US tv. Fox news has taken a particular interest in it...hah. But i have heard a lot of experts give their opinion on it.

Ah, here's a 6 day case.

In the summer of 1973, four hostages were taken in a botched bank robbery at Kreditbanken in Stockholm, Sweden. At the end of their captivity, six days later, they actively resisted rescue. They refused to testify against their captors, raised money for their legal defense, and according to some reports one of the hostages eventually became engaged to one of her jailed captors.

I think if you combine it with drugging and say that he was drugged in addition it makes more sense than if you thought he said all this due to the syndrome. I'm just not sure he'd so easily sympathasize with a group he already has such strong feelings against without some sort of drug.

[pinkingrid]

Daniel suddenly talks ghetto
Makes me think he's gonna start rapping soon especially with the "baby" part.
Bree you lookin' so fine
But baby take this as a sign...

blah blah blah... then the official LonelyGirl15 OST is released [hehehe] kidding

[consideration]

Patty Hearst...if you read more information on her, you will see many disagree it was stockholm syndrome and many believe she staged her kidnapping. It's reallly anyone's guess though.

I have to disagree with that one. I've read quite a bit about her actually (a combination of obsessions with Citizen Kane and that one line from that Warren Zevon song) and I believe that she really was brainwashed.

For the rest of your post, Stockholm syndrome would be a borderline ludicrous suggestion in such a short period of time without other influences.

[Cherie_Sotta]

Not sure if someone pointed this out BUT...

Anyone notice that Daniel looks up JUST like "Cassie" in our OpAPHID videos?? He does it immediatley after he says...

"C'mon, do the ceremony. That's all you need to do."

Jinkies. Now THAT is some major creepy.

[Sheqinah]

This reminded me of the whole Patty Hearst/SLA scandal back in the day, so I looked up a bit about it on Wiki. I found something interesting.

In her trial, which commenced on January 15, 1976, Hearst's attorney claimed that she had been blindfolded, imprisoned in a narrow closet, and physically and sexually abused. The claim that her actions were the result of a concerted brainwashing program was central to her defense. (Hearst's actions have also been attributed to "Stockholm syndrome," in which hostages sympathize with the aims of their captors.)

I am of the camp that does not buy the brainwashing theory (We do have a camp, right?) And the reason is explained well enough above. It takes a wee bit of time really turn someone around. Some heavy serious threat to self and safety too. I know he had up to a week to make the video, but the altered state of mind and hood chat makes me think there is an influence producing that. With incentives. (remember the ice cream and pizza? LOL)

That said, if they do end up saying it was brainwashing, the writers will have to have some pretty persuasive splaining to do for me to buy that story.

[onsweetavenue]

Patty Hearst...if you read more information on her, you will see many disagree it was stockholm syndrome and many believe she staged her kidnapping. It's reallly anyone's guess though.

I have to disagree with that one. I've read quite a bit about her actually (a combination of obsessions with Citizen Kane and that one line from that Warren Zevon song) and I believe that she really was brainwashed.

You disagree that many people think she staged her kidnapping? That's pretty much a fact. I have no judgment on it either way, I'm just saying some people found it suspicious, including the jury. It is still a controversial case.

For the rest of your post, Stockholm syndrome would be a borderline ludicrous suggestion in such a short period of time without other influences.

I agree, I don't know if you're arguing otherwise, but I thought it sounded possible but rare without drugs and I didn't see anyone talking about stockholm plus drugs before.

Frankly I think there's a methodology and drgging involved in getting daniel to say this, but I just don't think it's stockholm syndrome because there's not enough time even with the drugs.

I think it's more likely they gave him something that completely disoriented him, made him lose his short term memory or whatever...then filled in the gaps in his memory the way they wanted. Made him believe they were "friends" and he wasn't a captive but another "friend". Kept him drugged, told him Bree was bad to him. Showed him some of bree's videos where she's saying mean things to daniel. Let him respond to bree, all drugged (that one line where he says they treated him better than bree), and so on and so forth.

But it could be anything else.

[thejyav]

so..hadn't posted in a long time but had to here this one was awesome and hilarious too. Daniel was great in it. "Yea I remember Cassie in my class...and she would want you to go through with it too" great stuff

[smurfswim]

That was so funny. I like how calm he is when he talks about her Dad. Like, yeah, that was a misunderstanding... Best video ever.

[PinkoLady]

I like:

"You know, I know I've only gone to community college, and the last job I had was at a gas station, but that's math that even I can do. It's Amazing!"


The fact that they got him to insult himself, have multiple personalities, and refer to himself in third person while speaking in first person plural definitely seems to indicate some kind of re-wiring-- clearly not Stockholm, even if there had been enough time.

Stockholm Syndrome, by the way, wouldn't be accelerated by drugs or drug induced; if it is, it's not Stockholm Syndrome, which is supposed to be psychological and not chemical by nature-- it would just be drug-induced compliance or submission.

[consideration]

Patty Hearst...if you read more information on her, you will see many disagree it was stockholm syndrome and many believe she staged her kidnapping. It's reallly anyone's guess though.

I have to disagree with that one. I've read quite a bit about her actually (a combination of obsessions with Citizen Kane and that one line from that Warren Zevon song) and I believe that she really was brainwashed.

You disagree that many people think she staged her kidnapping? That's pretty much a fact. I have no judgment on it either way, I'm just saying some people found it suspicious, including the jury. It is still a controversial case.

For the rest of your post, Stockholm syndrome would be a borderline ludicrous suggestion in such a short period of time without other influences.

I agree, I don't know if you're arguing otherwise, but I thought it sounded possible but rare without drugs and I didn't see anyone talking about stockholm plus drugs before.

Frankly I think there's a methodology and drgging involved in getting daniel to say this, but I just don't think it's stockholm syndrome because there's not enough time even with the drugs.

I think it's more likely they gave him something that completely disoriented him, made him lose his short term memory or whatever...then filled in the gaps in his memory the way they wanted. Made him believe they were "friends" and he wasn't a captive but another "friend". Kept him drugged, told him Bree was bad to him. Showed him some of bree's videos where she's saying mean things to daniel. Let him respond to bree, all drugged (that one line where he says they treated him better than bree), and so on and so forth.

But it could be anything else.

I guess I'm not too clear.
I disagree with that she staged her kidnapping. I think she was brainwashed. But that's a bit off-topic.

I don't think that it would be possible if it was Stockholm syndrome alone. Also, his behavior is vastly different, which seems drug-induced. I pretty much agree with that it appears to be a combination of most of the things which have been discussed: brainwashing, drugs, hypnosis, evil spin art.

[Beckers]

I think he's faking it