[DISCUSSION] A new theory about the symbols

[impulse]

Ladron also reminded us that Tachyon stole her info in an information gathering facility. So Opaphid has an information gathering department. I'm still thinking of the Lambda + Sigma ligature as Gatherers of some sort.

[tristan]

Thanks again for the great summary, tristan. The only thing I'd add is that the lambda could actually be a gimel. I personally think it's a lambda, but I don't think we've gotten consensus on that one.

this is a good point before we start trying to figure out what we dont know lets decide on what we know. is it now safe to say the symbol we think is Sigma Lambda is sigma lambda because Tachyon didnt make any mention of it being wrong in her latest message?
....or is there still some doubt that it might be a Gimel?

[KelQuelle]

I think lambda is right. tachyon didn't really say we're wrong about it in her last note, right? also lambda is related to goats, ox, or shepards or something. i saw someone relate that to gatherers and i think thats a good theory.

[EdWont]

I was just in Barnes and Nobles and they have a new book out called, "The Most EVIL Secret Societies in History." There's an entire chapter devoted to Crowley and the Argenteum Astrum. At any rate, I bring this up becuase there's a referece to a symbol he made called teh Astral T, which allegedly caused a woman to kill herself. It's the symbol for Saturn, so it fits in with the dieties. My thoughts are that it might illuminate the Tau-Omicron ligature. Then again, maybe it's nothing.

On a side note, there's an intresting description of a sexual ritual Crowley came up with if somebody was to be inducted into the Argenteum Astrum. Part of the preperation for the inductee they discussed, dealt with the person being locked up in his room in a "solitary confinement." It made me think of Bree in those early days. There was also talk of how Crowely's wife allegedly had a psychic link with the god Horus, while in Egypt. If you look Horus up on wiki, you get a link to another god that is associated with Thelima. Oh well. My main point here is that maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Instead of trying to find out what the symbols mean in terms of origin, maybe we should be paying more attention to their links to dieties. I talk too much.

If anyone can find a picture of the Astral T, maybe it'll lead somewhere. It probably won't, but it's a lead with a link to a Greco-Roman deity, so I think it's worth pursuing. Maybe I'm stupid. I don't know. Hope the research is going well. Best!

[PinkoLady]

If only because it doesn't LOOK like a Lambda

I don't know. I think we're getting the overanalyzing fever again. We should keep it simple and stick to the greek alphabet imho.

I know, I wasn't saying it was neccessarily Gemil...

my point is that I'm f*cking annoyed with the liberties they're taking with the appearance of these Greek letters.

[RubyRed11]

we have four symbols and no definitive proof as to what they mean, except that one is the symbol for the watchers.

we know that the watchers are a pat of the order,

what if the other logos are other branches of the order?

just thought it was an idea to throw out there..

thats exactly what i was thinking

[PinkoLady]

I think lambda is right. tachyon didn't really say we're wrong about it in her last note, right? also lambda is related to goats, ox, or shepards or something. i saw someone relate that to gatherers and i think thats a good theory.

To be fair, she didn't say Gemil was wrong either, and they were both presented equally in the main notes/numbers thread.

And "the word gimel is related to gemul, which means justified repayment, or the giving of reward and punishment."

Op's always saying that "no one can escape the rewards of their actions" or some crap.

[lehcarice9]

Okay. so I have been watching these movies and reading the posts for ages now...

i even started researching things...but never posted anything (usually because people had already posted them)

anyways...i was just thinking...jonas said (or told daniel) that he had seen the symbol/artwork thing for his life. This means that most likely, it had been there when his parents were alive.

So then i remembered that his parents dissappeared in a sailing accident. so then i thought..."hmmm...maybe this isnt greek, but something that has to do with sailing". Now, I personally dont sail, but I know people that do, so i know stuff about it. Well...when someone is traveling out at sea, they often (or used to?) carry flags about to tell something to passing ships.

for example: http://z.about.com/d/sailing/1/8/O/bravo.jpg
that means "dangerous cargo"

so...me and my smart-self thought "lets see if there are flags that look like a similar shape to the symbol...and see what it means.

so these are the two flags i found:


means "required medical assistance" doesn't it also look like the top symbol on the art? it looks like the greek letter theta (the circle and the dot in the middle)

similarly, I found this image:




which means "Keep clear; engaged in trawling"

i had to do reasearch. trawling is the process in which one fishes by activley pulling a fishing net through the water behind one or more boats.


Now...i know i'm no expert on this field of LG-ology...but i might say that this is a hidden symbol.

the medical assistance may mean jonas needs back-up, or his plan is injured...or many other reasons. But, since it was there before Bree came to his cabin, one may suspect the Order's relation to medical procedures and medicine (which may have to do with the shots and other things...)

The keep clear brings up a different meaning entirely. It can mean several things. Firstly, the trawling can symbolize how the Order pulls people in to their 'ship' of beliefs. also, the keep clear also contradicts this previous statement, but may have a meaning that i havn't thought of yet.


i hope you guys actually read this. YAY! MY FIRST POST IS DONE!

spread the word...i think this is really useful information.

[KelQuelle]

I think lambda is right. tachyon didn't really say we're wrong about it in her last note, right? also lambda is related to goats, ox, or shepards or something. i saw someone relate that to gatherers and i think thats a good theory.

To be fair, she didn't say Gemil was wrong either, and they were both presented equally in the main notes/numbers thread.

And "the word gimel is related to gemul, which means justified repayment, or the giving of reward and punishment."

Op's always saying that "no one can escape the rewards of their actions" or some crap.

Gemil is definately a possiblity. I kind of just think it'd be odd for all the rest to be Greek and one to not be.

[freakish]

i like the idea of different symbols for different branches...its exactly like LOST if anyone watches that show..they have different symbols for different parts of whatever organization "the others" are part of, and each part is assigned a different job.

[seraphima]

The Greek alphabet (alpha beta- origin of word alphabet!) can be traced back to phonecian and then egyptian, as tachyon mentioned with the ra/theta. I like the idea of gimel rather than lambda because if you track gimel back to egyptian it also has meaning as a determinative glyph (one which lends meaning to a symbol with which it is combined, a bit like an adjective). In this case, gimel's ancestor glyph means "enemy".

I realy like the idea of numerology being involved- although I don't think it can be, given the hints in tachyon's note as to how we should read the symbols. But greek letters were used as numerals (eg theta=9) and crowley's "greek qabbalah" used these values. Thge only meaning I could find is now uninteresting- he used tau-omicron to mean "the".

[reputationforte]

Okay. so I have been watching these movies and reading the posts for ages now...

i even started researching things...but never posted anything (usually because people had already posted them)

anyways...i was just thinking...jonas said (or told daniel) that he had seen the symbol/artwork thing for his life. This means that most likely, it had been there when his parents were alive.

So then i remembered that his parents dissappeared in a sailing accident. so then i thought..."hmmm...maybe this isnt greek, but something that has to do with sailing". Now, I personally dont sail, but I know people that do, so i know stuff about it. Well...when someone is traveling out at sea, they often (or used to?) carry flags about to tell something to passing ships.

for example: http://z.about.com/d/sailing/1/8/O/bravo.jpg
that means "dangerous cargo"

so...me and my smart-self thought "lets see if there are flags that look like a similar shape to the symbol...and see what it means.

so these are the two flags i found:


means "required medical assistance" doesn't it also look like the top symbol on the art? it looks like the greek letter theta (the circle and the dot in the middle)

similarly, I found this image:




which means "Keep clear; engaged in trawling"

i had to do reasearch. trawling is the process in which one fishes by activley pulling a fishing net through the water behind one or more boats.


Now...i know i'm no expert on this field of LG-ology...but i might say that this is a hidden symbol.

the medical assistance may mean jonas needs back-up, or his plan is injured...or many other reasons. But, since it was there before Bree came to his cabin, one may suspect the Order's relation to medical procedures and medicine (which may have to do with the shots and other things...)

The keep clear brings up a different meaning entirely. It can mean several things. Firstly, the trawling can symbolize how the Order pulls people in to their 'ship' of beliefs. also, the keep clear also contradicts this previous statement, but may have a meaning that i havn't thought of yet.


i hope you guys actually read this. YAY! MY FIRST POST IS DONE!

spread the word...i think this is really useful information.

well, each letter has a flag pic. to it, and the"I" looks like another possiblility (http://library.thinkquest.org/5391/flag_messages.html). It said the "I" flags message is
1) "I am directing my course to port." (International)
2) "Coming alongside." (Navy)
3) "Round the Ends Starting Rule"(Sailing Regatta)

(I found this thanks to http://www.marinewaypoints.com/learn/flags/flags.shtml)

maybe the top of the Watchers symbol (if it is meant to pass messages through flag look-alikes) means they are making their way to "port", possibly being the person whos being watched location? but its just a little theory to follow along with the "flag message" idea..


(P.S. I looked through a book about hieroglyphs, and they say "theta stands for 'the sun' and the name of the god Ra, but it can also stand for 'time', so it stands for an object, a name and an idea all at the same time. Just saying this to prove that theta does not ONLY mean sun, such as most people think it does. Basically proving that theta is most possibly a wrong symbol for the watchers. What does sun and/or time have to do with watchers? Also, how is the gimel part of the watcher symbol? could you possibly demonstrate with pics plz? )

[KelQuelle]

Tachyon also mentioned theta could have something to do with death.

As for gimel, it isn't actually in the watcher symbol, but it is one of the three new symbols.
the watcher symbol is in the bottom left and the one with gimel is in the top right.[/img]

[reputationforte]

Well, wikipedia says that theta DOES mean death, and its opposite is Tau, meaning life/resurrection

(credits go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau)

[impulse]

It looks like we are stuck here. We are going around in circle.