0149-"Flesh Wound" [3/09/07]

islandlove · Post by **islandlove** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:56 pm

Was Bree trying to hurt Jonas by not bringing him to the hospital? I don't think so.

She wasn't sitting there saying "hmm i can fix this, that way you dont go to the hospital, and then you can die"

She was looking out for all of them, She didn't want them to be caught

Remember what happened when they got Daniel? He got all brainwashed and fell in love with spin art

she was trying to prevent this from happening to all of them, shes not the only target anymore, the order knows that Jonas and Daniel are all she has right now and they have already showed us they will use them to influence her decisions

steamboat · Post by **steamboat** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:57 pm

aaaand maybe its just the years of Catholic school talking, but that looked like a "Jesus hand wound" if ya know what I mean.... not saying that Jonas=savior in this scenario, but it could have some symbolism

I mean we analyze everything else around here so, why not?

Thaaaaaank you. I went through this whole topic waiting for someone to bring that up. IF the creators suddenly wanted one of them to be injured, that's understandable. But why put a a freaking hole through the center of Jonas's hand? STIGMATA, anyone?

islandlove · Post by **islandlove** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:58 pm

khjq wrote:I've never seen someone try to pick a lock with a freakin screw driver...he could of unscrewed it instead or tried to bash it open or break a window and climb in...but he probably would of cut his head off doing that though...

what exactly was he using the screwdriver for, thats what i want to know

sodvest · Post by **sodvest** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:04 pm

.... and then MacGyver walks in, pokes at the door, it opens immediately, shakes his head and walks away.....

Onewen · Post by **Onewen** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:48 pm

sodvest wrote:.... and then MacGyver walks in, pokes at the door, it opens immediately, shakes his head and walks away.....

What they really need is a little Jack Bauer! He'd fix their little "problem" with the Order really FAST!

(sorry for the off topic post...)

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:58 pm

steamboat wrote:
aaaand maybe its just the years of Catholic school talking, but that looked like a "Jesus hand wound" if ya know what I mean.... not saying that Jonas=savior in this scenario, but it could have some symbolism

I mean we analyze everything else around here so, why not?

Thaaaaaank you. I went through this whole topic waiting for someone to bring that up. IF the creators suddenly wanted one of them to be injured, that's understandable. But why put a a freaking hole through the center of Jonas's hand? STIGMATA, anyone?

I wanted to point this out earlier too, but got caught up in answering other people's posts. This is the first thing I thought of when I saw Jonas's hand injury (well, that and how stupid is Jonas not to be able to get that door open).

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:01 pm

I'm sure that this has been mentioned before, but I'm too lazy to read this whole thread

I have never heard of a vet who will perform any type of procedure on a human.

Chelseyrl · Post by **Chelseyrl** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:10 pm

PixieSailor wrote:
Chelseyrl wrote: no worries! I do too... actually, I've noticed that a lot of Minnesotans do too... weird.
*is minesotan*
I don't think I've ever said man like that.......ever.

Then it's prolly just the area around me

Edit: (off-topic. I know. sorry.)

Onewen · Post by **Onewen** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:12 pm

Ziola,
Here is the article that was posted last night:

bethy wrote:An ethicist's commentary on when a veterinarian can render medical assistance to people:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... tid=340065

An ethicist's commentary on when a veterinarian can render medical assistance to people

Bernard E. Rollin, Phd

This question is actually dual, legal and ethical. Not being a legal scholar, I will deal primarily with the latter, though legal ramifications of intervening must enter into one's moral reasoning. Exposure to liability in virtue of helping someone has been limited in many jurisdictions by Good Samaritan laws, which protect those who offer assistance of various sorts to people in trouble. The protection provided by these laws is consonant with common sense and protects the Samaritan's right to provide first aid, CPR, and minimal medical assistance that many people are likely to have mastered. It certainly would not protect me if, without cardiac surgical training of any sort, I cracked a chest and administered heart massage.

What the Good Samaritan laws seem to say ethically, is that citizens should not be discouraged from helping others at a rudimentary level commensurate with their expertise by fear of liability. This sounds like a reasonable moral position. We don't want a society where fear of a lawsuit prevents its members from helping one another.

When the Good Samaritan is a person who is medically trained, albeit not a physician, I would think that morally, the public is entitled to expect more in the way of emergency assistance than it expects of an ordinary citizen. The more training and experience in managing that sort of emergency, the more the public is entitled to expect. Thus a military medical corpsman or a veterinarian, both trained to control bleeding, could be expected to accomplish hemostasis in an emergency. Veterinary training for the first 2 years of veterinary school is virtually identical to that of human medical training. At one point, the State of Wyoming considered creating a medical school and training the medical students for their first 2 years at the Colorado State University (CSU) College of Veterinary Medicine. In fact, a graduate of a veterinary school is likely to have more training in surgery than does a medical school graduate.

Given that tissue is tissue and bleeding is bleeding, I would think that a veterinarian facing a laceration emergency with a human could be morally expected — and permitted — to treat the emergency.

The same reasoning should be applicable on a case to case basis, and moral obligation to help, as it were, titrated on the basis of expertise. An academic veterinary heart surgeon with 40 years of experience who has worked in human hospitals during sabbatical leaves is probably more competent to help in the situation described in this case than a physician dermatologist or recent medical school graduate. If the law does not currently embody this insight, it should be modified to do so.

In the spirit of our discussion, Dean Lance Perryman of the CSU College of Veterinary Medicine has made a novel suggestion. He has raised the possibility that, in rural areas deficient in physicians, veterinarians could undergo some additional training analogous to physicians' assistants, in order to provide rudimentary medical care in such communities. In fact, this already occurs de facto in some rural areas where veterinarians treat their clients' cuts and even fractures.

In sum, as regards the case in question, the veterinarian may morally provide emergency help, provided that he or she does not exceed his or her training and comfort level.

I am grateful to Ralph Switzer for dialogue.

lonelygirl · Post by **lonelygirl** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:16 pm

This video just officially confirmed how stupid Bree is. She has never made a right decision since the beginning except maybe to go against the order. I mean it's not like the order can't find them in a second if they wanted to. All they've been doing is running, running, running from them and the order hasn't done much to retaliate so what the heck is the point? Just take him to the hospital for goodness sake. And Jonas is dumb as well. How the heck do you injure yourself with a screw driver picking a lock? Is that even possible or only possible for idiots? And that much blood too? Come on, be realistic.

ShardinsKitten · Post by **ShardinsKitten** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:32 pm

I bet DB could pick the lock, he's good at the breaking and entering stuff, I dunno why they didn't just have him do it. Though I guess we've never seen him pick a lock before, but all that breaking and entering stuff, you would think he would know how, because well what would of happened if he would of ran into a locked door lol.

But I have to agree with whoever said that the only point of these last two videos seems to be that Jonas and DB are tired of being on the run, and just want a more normal life.

I still think, it was a very well done video, the acting, the blood all of it.

Though I don't think Bree is some horrible person for not wanting to go to the hospital. Jonas needed to but Brees probably never even been through an emergency like this, and she's scared, for all of them I think. Though she is far from being a mature women. She has a lot of growing up to do, and I'm not sure we'll ever see it.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:40 pm

lonelygirl wrote: And that much blood too? Come on, be realistic.

As I said previously, it was very realistic. I've had an injury like that before, and it was right on. My injury looked exactly like that, and the amount of blood is accurate. They did an excellent job.

Shardsinkitten wrote:bet DB could pick the lock, he's good at the breaking and entering stuff, I dunno why they didn't just have him do it. Though I guess we've never seen him pick a lock before, but all that breaking and entering stuff, you would think he would know how, because well what would of happened if he would of ran into a locked door lol

Since it isn't his house or his documents inside that room, DB may think it inappropriate to attempt it unless Jonas asked for his help.

Oh, and thanks. I was the one who said these videos were meant to show how tired the boys were of life on the run. However, I think something more may come of this particular video (regarding how Jonas injured himself).

lonelygirl · Post by **lonelygirl** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:41 pm

longlostposter wrote:
lonelygirl wrote: And that much blood too? Come on, be realistic.
As I said previously, it was very realistic. I've had an injury like that before, and it was right on. My injury looked exactly like that, and the amount of blood is accurate. They did an excellent job.

I suppose if you're that dumb to stab yourself with a freakin screwdriver while trying to pick a lock. How anyone just puncture themselves like that trying to pick a lock is beyond me. These videos are just getting unrealistic.

And who the heck is holding the camera while they're in the car?

Geena · Post by **Geena** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:42 pm

So, I've been watching LG15 since the very beginning and have been lurking on the forums for quite awhile. I feel very intimidated to be posting here, but hey, I'll give it a shot.

The Creators might be using character development for Bree, as others have said. They may be making her seem unlikeable right now and off her rocker but I think it's for a reason. Maybe they're trying to build us up for Bree coming out as the strong one in the end, for a shocker.

Also this might be really far-fetched, but maybe Jonas was trying to prolong opening the door to his Aunt's office? Maybe he really doesn't want them to see what's in there, and he actually had no intention of opening it. But he "tried" just to make him seem less suspicious? I'm not quite sure he'd go to that extreme to hurt himself, but who knows. If he IS in The Order, anything is quite possible.

Maccadole · Post by **Maccadole** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Wow... I just read through 13 pages of... Not nothing. But not much either.
Well, still interesting. Although I have no idea why I'm posting since I don't really have anything special to say about the new video.

Weird, yes...
But I still liked it. I think. The wound looked real enough.
That's all.

Edit to also say:

Geena wrote:So, I've been watching LG15 since the very beginning and have been lurking on the forums for quite awhile. I feel very intimidated to be posting here, but hey, I'll give it a shot.

I felt like that, too. I still do. I'm only on my second post. *sweatdrops*