[DISCUSSION] Shilling and Cheating

[Mvidrine]

Personally I'm not too surprised at the cheating/shill that was going on. I figured something was going on just by observeing. That being said alot of people put alot of effort into these puzzles. I understand the PM needing to keep up the solving of the puzzles with the videos, but I think he should have gone about it in a much more IC and transparent way. That being said, I think the whole LG15 thing has a problem with transparency. the creators are always talking about viewer interaction, but I see little of that, and many of the things that seem to be signs of this interaction turn out to have the creator's fingers in them. Examples are, Nikki being friends with the creators and not just a regular fan who the creators gave some scoops to. And also when they had the whole "should bree and daniel go with Jonas" thing, our voices did not seem to affect the outcome either way.

That being said, what was done by the PM was an abuse of power. It's bad enough to break open the curtain, to have interactions with some memebers to give them the hints, but what above all makes this a fireable offense is the solitiation of naked pics in exchange for clues.

I hope that OpAphid will not die. I hope the creators could reach out to the people who are leaving and bring them back. But I'm working on Oppy's Eulogy anyway

[Lurker]

That being said, I think the whole LG15 thing has a problem with transparency. the creators are always talking about viewer interaction, but I see little of that, and many of the things that seem to be signs of this interaction turn out to have the creator's fingers in them. Examples are, Nikki being friends with the creators and not just a regular fan who the creators gave some scoops to. And also when they had the whole "should bree and daniel go with Jonas" thing, our voices did not seem to affect the outcome either way.

Nikki's videos are just meant for fun anyway. She doesn't want or expect them to be taken seriously (and you really can't enjoy them if you do). The "The Test" thing is a fine example of what you suggest, yes, but Nikki isn't.

The only way I could see them as comparable is if the Creators said they were going to hold a contest for the fans, the winner of which would receive inside information on locations, etc., only for Nikki to "win" and then be revealed as their friend later. As it stands, I don't see any similarities.

[chixor1]

We've been discussing both.
For the Petaluma Revisited drop I was told to have Luv stay put while "brother" was in route. I shilled so she didn't drive home another 3 hours empty handed.

In the ARG world this is acceptable, but only if that information is given by a character.
There are ways to prevent shilling accusations and its generally not a difficult thing to do, it just has to be done properly.

[Killthesmiley]

See if these Hint's were given at an in-character discussion, we would not have that much of a problem on our hands. The only problem would be the pervse actions that have occured.
If it was incharacter there would be no discussion of cheating, period. But where it wasn't incharacter, where it was Glenn saying OOG "I'll give you the answers for...." then there is a huge problem. Beyond the nudity. Frankly, the nudity issue shouldn't be any of our business, that is between the accussed, the offender and the creators.
But the cheating is a whole different story.

[itsreallyreal]

One thing is clear to me...

If you are the kind of person who can take information behind the curtain... Then apply it in the public space and take credit for it as if you had come to that conclusion yoursefl... And repeated the offense many times...

You clearly care more about having other people "think" you are smart and valuable than you care about the game... and no game needs to haev anyone there who is putting their own issues/needs/desires/insecurities above the simple art of game playing and enjoying the story...

And to make it worse... If you wield this new found (and fake) sense of self inflated importance to make others feel excluded/unwelcome/inferior in the game you direcly effect their game play... Yuo would also then be pretty pathetic...

These kinds of games are meant to be fun and played as a community... When you undermine the trust and the support and the mutual respect of that community... Then the community will faulter when those actions come to the surface...

ALL community is based on some level of trust.. And unfortunately... No matter what is true and what is not... The trust between players... Mods... PMS... Creators... and everything in between has been effected by these improprieties no matter the size of them...

This is a clear recipe on how to self destruct an ARG... Take note folks...

[Kasdeja]

Is that before or after the Second Life method?

[ForeverMourn]

LoL, Kas, defitnley AFTER Second Life method. If Second Life doesn't destroy the game, cheating will... lol.