[Discussion] What Has Happened [Vent Thread]

itsreallyreal · Post by **itsreallyreal** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:54 am

This conversation had died.. let's not resesitate it

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:55 am

now lets all go over into parallax and discuss the latest video

Post by **wintermute** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:58 am

Sami wrote:Don't you guys have a local police station to go to if you have a concern. Or is it like "Call FBI!".... like in the movies?

I'm not sure what Sappho deals with, but I've dealt with the local sheriff's detective bureau on occasion.

'mute

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:59 am

if i have to get out my cattle prod I will!

Post by **wintermute** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:03 pm

Killthesmiley wrote:if i have to get out my cattle prod I will!

Yeah, we've had to deal with the local sheriff's office for that problem, too. One of the surrounding towns had cows marching down Main St. at 2am

'mute

Sappho · Post by **Sappho** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:37 pm

wintermute wrote:
Sami wrote:Don't you guys have a local police station to go to if you have a concern. Or is it like "Call FBI!".... like in the movies?
I'm not sure what Sappho deals with, but I've dealt with the local sheriff's detective bureau on occasion.

'mute

When it is online http://www.missingkids.com/cybertip/ That covers the FBI, local cops, even the ISP.

Look! Over there! Bunnies!!!

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:41 pm

Kasdeja wrote:sphinx, she didn't say she had suspicions that THIS was going on...many have made complaints about many aspects and we were flamed for it. We had no way to know about THSE details and it looks as if people are shifting blame. Just because some on the outside could tell something was wrong, doesn't mean we had any idea WHAT was wrong. And, if you look back...many have posted complaints so for THEIR issues they DID take action. Let's not shift blame and twist things, please.

That's exactly right. Thank you, Kas. Sphinx, you're going overboard with what I said. Besides, I have said...several times now....that we HAVE reported concerns that were were able to identify. Some of us still felt something wasn't right, but we didn't have any idea what it was. Do you get that yet? People are tired of me saying this...but I'm tired of those who continue on with the wrong idea of what I (or others may or may not have said). In this thread, I have quoted Panda and Lad...their words, not mine.

The latest LG15 video is a good illustration if what I'm trying to say here. That video is disturbing and creepy. It's difficult to follow, especially the first time or two you watch it. You know something isn't right...but you can't really pinpoint it.

Anyway, there WERE changes made just over a month ago...the direct result of input from numerous people bringing up these concerns. Clearly, we didn't know the depth of the issues, but we all knew something wasn't right. That's when Apo came on board as a moderator. Apo has been a fantastic moderator...sometimes over eager...but fair. However, it clearly wasn't enough since the others who remained were still carrying on as they always had been.

Yeah....I'm thrilled the cheaters are gone. I'm happy that the people who protected them are gone. And I'm happy that the ones who felt it necessary to keep this secret are also gone. In my eyes, you're all as guilty as the rest in having a hand at pulling this down. Which is ironic, since you all convinced yourselves that hiding it was for "the good of the game." Harsh? Yes...but it's true. As I mentioned before, the anger isn't just about this one situation....the anger being seen is coming from months of frustration and really poor decisions.

Now, in the spirit of trying to carry on...the reason I'm so critical of the people who were aware of the situation is this:

The Creators had this vision and have struggled to put together this project...it's become their business - their names...their reputations. It's not fair for people working for the project (paid and unpaid) to ruin that out of your own selfishness. Clearly, the Creators were completely unaware of this. The "game" had been absorbed into the story....and as a result, became part of their reputation.

I work for a very small business. We have several competitors...and all of us operate within the law as it pertains to our line of work. However, there are a LOT of ethical issues...and our company is seen the best of the best because we don't put up with the unethical stuff some of our competitors deal with. Unfortunately, a lot of our clients come to us after dealing with them and the stories we hear just make us sick. We KNOW it happens, we see it all the time. Sure, we could do the same stuff....we sure would be making more money that way if we did. But it's because we have respect for the people we're serving that we hold ourselves to very high standards of conduct. If one of us were doing something unethical, it would jeopardize not only our jobs, but the company as a whole...and that's not fair to all the other people in the company.

Call me an idealist, I guess...but sometimes, we need to be uppity bitches about this kind of stuff.

It's my opinion that anyone working within the project, from the Creators on down to the forum mods, work together for the good of the project as a whole. That includes expressing concerns about unethical issues that could mar the project's reputation....ESPECIALLY a project that deals with the story of a young, underage girl.

If the ARG aspect of the project can be resurrected, then I suggest that all official, collaborative game play be completely transparent and available to everyone. The the PM (or teams of PMs) remain locked backstage until the end, and other support staff (OPs and Mods) not be game participants, but more like referees or line judges.

As I said, I'm only being so critical because I think it's important to realize that this wasn't the just fault of one person alone...quite a few people had the power to stop this before it got out of hand, and nobody stood up until it got really bad, potentially causing damage to the project as a whole, not just the ARG part of it. I find that disgusting, since it's not fair to the Creators or the project they've worked hard to build.

*whew* I'm done ... I would like to see a real game start now.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:16 pm

Languorous Lass wrote: IMHO, a lot of times people who are put in extremely awkward situations (like having a PM ask them for nude pix) don't do anything because (1) they don't know whether the behavior of the other party is wrong, and/or (2) they're too embarrassed to bring it to anybody's attention, and/or (3) they don't know who to contact.

Or they're afraid of being called a liar.

Post by **wintermute** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:43 pm

sphinx, personal attacks have no place here. Yes, "uppity bitch" was her term. But there is no reason to call her racist. If she's done something offensive, PM the mods. Though it's a complete different issue than what we're dealing with right now.

FWIW, ApO isn't a mod of the OpA section. He's a mod of the entire forums. He's done great work across the board, and I just wanted to point that out

'mute

itsreallyreal · Post by **itsreallyreal** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:55 pm

I agre ApO has been awesome... so lets keep his name out of arguments if we can.. not being rudejust askingg as a favor to ApO...

This is all I have to say guys... It's clear that some people are still interested in dragging out their opinions on the matter. I am not judging anyone for that nore am I judging their opinions...

But I really would hope that we can ALL either focus on helping HEAL the situation or step out for a bit and relax until we feel we can be posative and productive together...

I won't single anyone out and I won't take a side... But I will say that IF the allegations are true MANY people are to blame... But that does not give ANY OF US the right to stand on some moral high ground here and judge upon or berate anyone else here for their actions.

The only ones that know what happens in our lives outside of this forum is us... But let he/she who has never had an error in judgement be the first to throw stones...

I'm just sayin'...

I know my sheets aren't clean...

sphinx · Post by **sphinx** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:04 pm

wintermute wrote:sphinx, personal attacks have no place here. Yes, "uppity bitch" was her term. But there is no reason to call her racist. If she's done something offensive, PM the mods. Though it's a complete different issue than what we're dealing with right now.

FWIW, ApO isn't a mod of the OpA section. He's a mod of the entire forums. He's done great work across the board, and I just wanted to point that out

'mute

Mute, if you've read my posts regarding this until this last one, i have not made personal attacks.

However, for some reason Bethy has been left absolutely unchecked for her personal attacks in every post she makes.

I suggest you apply the rule to everyone.
If it's open season on some, it's open season on all.

If it's necessary to link "proof" for my claim that is sitting on these very boards, I have no problem with that. At least I have the proof.
Bethy's personal attacks are nothing but garbage.

Apo has actively taken the role of moderator on the OpAphid boards. I haven't discussed any of his other responsibilities at all. Your point, although correct, doesn't really pertain to anything I've posted here, sorry.

Post by **wintermute** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:05 pm

itsreallyreal wrote:The only ones that know what happens in our lives outside of this forum is us... But let he/she who has never had an error in judgement be the first to throw stones...

I'm just sayin'... I know my sheets aren't clean...

/me pings IRR with a small pebble.

Oh. Sorry.

'mute

ApotheosisAZ · Post by **ApotheosisAZ** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:09 pm

I have just finished sending PMs to the people who are insisting on using this area for launching personal attacks on other forum users.

I posted a general message regarding personal attacks in this topic yesterday. I know that has been read.

Vent, if you need to. Do not continue to attack one another here. If you must, use a PM.

itsreallyreal · Post by **itsreallyreal** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:13 pm

wintermute wrote:
itsreallyreal wrote:The only ones that know what happens in our lives outside of this forum is us... But let he/she who has never had an error in judgement be the first to throw stones...

I'm just sayin'... I know my sheets aren't clean...
/me pings IRR with a small pebble.

Oh. Sorry.

'mute

OUCH!

I se how it is...

/me searches for a boulder large enough to represent misgivings...

AH HA! HERE it is!!!

/me is crushed by the sheer weight of trying to lift the boulder...

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:15 pm

Sphinx..."hanky panky" is a term similar to "hocus pocus" means trickery...taking advantage of someone or some situation. I don't know what on earth you're referring to, but I mean it as it is defined. For months forum members have been complaining about certain aspects of the ARG. That mods were playing favorites, that they were abusing their powers and taking advantage of situations. It's well discussed elsewhere in this forum. Those of us that did suspect problems DID report them, and some changes were made. Yes, I know other people were happy with the changes, too...but they were much needed changes, and that doesn't invalidate the fact that some of us felt there was (and continued to be) stuff happening behind the scenes. Again (!) we didn't know what was happening, in fact, we didn't even have a clue....we just knew something wasn't right. People have been saying it for months all over this board. I mean, really...what part of that can't you comprehend, and why are you being so damn defensive over it? It's not anything new.

Don't forget to add racist in the mix based on posts you've made on this board in the past.

Okay, that's it. What in the HELL are you talking about? Accusing me of being a racist? You've got a lot chutzpah, there with that. Me? a racist? I challenge you to provide proof of that right now...or issue an apology. Do you know anything about me? I'm the most non-racial of people you'll ever meet. My own two children are both different races than my own.

You're not even worth the effort anymore, lowering yourself to that kind of level. I've never attacked you personally. I've wanted to perhaps...but I never have. Don't make the mistake of confusing criticism and an attack. THey aren't the same thing.

Edited out the big quote I left on accident.