Who Sees What?

[Renegade]

That would be a neat concept for an ARG - people essentially play against each other and help opposing sides. But then, how would new users know which side to choose without watching the vids. And what if you want to change sides... probably wouldn't work in this case, but I really like the idea!

This has been discussed multiple times in the Aphid sections and is generally not favored - simply because of the riddles and drops. Imagine how much it'd suck if there was a Tachyon drop in an area where only Apheads live...rooting for a particular side is one thing, but actual seperation of players would inevitably lead to sabotage, gamejacking, and all kinds of ugly hostility. I'd hurt the fun.

(Though, I agree, if the scale was large enough, it'd be fun.)

[BTStars]

That would be a neat concept for an ARG - people essentially play against each other and help opposing sides. But then, how would new users know which side to choose without watching the vids. And what if you want to change sides... probably wouldn't work in this case, but I really like the idea!

This has been discussed multiple times in the Aphid sections and is generally not favored - simply because of the riddles and drops. Imagine how much it'd suck if there was a Tachyon drop in an area where only Apheads live...rooting for a particular side is one thing, but actual seperation of players would inevitably lead to sabotage, gamejacking, and all kinds of ugly hostility. I'd hurt the fun.

(Though, I agree, if the scale was large enough, it'd be fun.)

I was thinking it could solely be used for private transmissions. As long as the creators didn't abuse it too much and have tons of Tachyon drops on private transmissions or whatever, then I think it would be fine. I also think that it would bring us closer to the characters. Just my opinion.

[wintermute]

It's a great idea, in theory. Even aside from issues brought up by Renegade, I still see problems with it. All it takes to tear the separation down is one person signed up for two accounts, sharing all information with everyone. It'd be an interesting exercise to see done if the ARG was large enough, though.

'mute

[longlostposter]

You could always delete the in-character forum, I don't really think anyone would mind. I wouldn't anyway.

Noooooo! Noooooo! I love the in-character threads.

Has this been implemented already? I don't mind that solution, but I'll have to go with the flow to figure it out; cause I'm just too lazy to think that hard.

Needless to say, I don't solve puzzles.

[colbertnationgirl]

Has this been implemented already?

No, it hasn't.

[Linc]

I've been mulling this over for a few days.

The concept in and of itself is interesting, but what I worry about is the casual viewers. And while obviously the dedicated viewers and players should be given more weight than that, you still need to maintain the ability for the passive watchers to follow and understand what's going on.

The way it's set up is that everyone pretty much assumes that all characters and the audience are seeing the videos. While that may be restricting in what characters can say to other characters, it also allows for some mystery.

When adding that ability for private conversations, maybe more gets revealed, but then when surprises happen, you wonder, "well, how come we didn't see the private vid of Bree and Daniel plotting this?" And that's where you come in danger of the suspension of disbelief. If they now have that ability, you would expect them to use it. So when shockers happen and they didn't use it, it feels cheap and forced, because you would expect to have at least an inkling of a plot with this added ability.

Personally, I think that while it's a cool idea, it would bring more trouble than good. Allowing for more mystery than less is always good, as long as the mystery doesn't become half as obtuse as Lost.

EDIT: Right, and my idea for a better one -

OpAPHID videos were great in that they showed a parallax (there's that word again) of what the characters were up to. After Daniel mentioned a listening bug in his room, there was a video of him finding it, from the bug's POV.

I feel that the security camera-style footage is how you can show characters talking privately. Here's an example:


--Bree's planning to nudge Jonas out, but she needs Daniel's help, who now is every bit as close a friend to Jonas as he is to Bree. At the end of Bree's video, we catch Bree mentioning that she wants to talk to Daniel about "Jonas leaving his clothes all over the place."

The next video - from OpAPHID, or another entity, doesn't matter - shows Bree and Daniel arguing like mad, but without audio, or even with. We get the idea, at least, that Bree and Daniel are not talking about something so benign.

For Bree-Tachyon discussion, here's an idea:

Bree decides to talk with Tachyon and contacts her via payphone. She doesn't know that OpAPHID has bugged that phone, and so we have video of her on the phone and the audio, but one-way; we don't hear Tachyon's reply.

[blessedmercy1018]

The great debate. Who sees what? Which characters see which videos? Good question.

Right now we are operating under the principle that every character sees every video posted on the website.

So... that means that Daniel/Bree/Jonas can't reveal anything that they don't want the Order and OpAphid to see and vice versa. That limits our storytelling ability severely (not to get too "filmy" but it makes it impossible for us to put the audience in a position of superior knowledge over the characters).

So... we've done A LOT of thinking and here is our proposed solution. It will be incorporated into the new site design (and used immediately in a more limited fashion).

1) All characters see every video... EXCEPT...

2) Some videos are labeled "Private Transmissions." Think of them as "password protected private video streams," or "personal diary entries." They are meant for "no other characters" to see... like a diary... or they may be specifically directed to an individual character or group of characters (e.g. Tachyon sending a message to Bree/Daniel/Jonas).

This is a FICTIONAL construct. We NEED everyone on the planet to see EVERY video (24 wouldn't work too well if you needed a password to watch 50% of the videos). There isn't actually a password. It isn't actually "private." So, it requires suspension of disbelief.

We will indicate these "Private Transmissions" graphically. Maybe a pre-roll blinking text thing, eventually a colored border around the video thumbnails. Something.

Here's how you play along. Everyone on the website (that's you!) is a character... even if you are playing yourself (like me) or playing a character (like LordGreystoke). So... that means your character "didn't see" the video... you can't tell Daniel/Bree/Jonas/Op/Tachyon about it since it is a video that none of the characters saw (and only characters can talk and interact on this website).

Example: Daniel sends a private transmission (to no one) saying the he loves Bree. You can't tell her. Tachyon sends a private transmission to Bree telling her how to take down Oppy. You can't warn Oppy.

Thoughts? Ideas? Other solutions? We think this is a fairly simple solution that requires a minor suspension of disbelief. But... we're open to your ideas and feedback.

Miles/The Creators

Creators I think this is a wonderful idea!! and it adds such a new layer to this whole series. Keep up the good work.

[bethy]

Seems to me that today's video is the beginning of the transition into this...with Bree's comments about posting videos.

[watching_watchers]

I like it but just one question. Just because you say we "can't" tell doesn't mean some people "won't" tell.
And if telling doesn't do anything anyway..Well...
That will make it seem not real and kind of make it less fun. :[

[dwljk]

I'm worried that the comments page would be lost in the middle of all this since we are not suppose to be telling them the results. But then again, who's to say they should even be able to read the comments on the lg15.com site. maybe just on revver or you tube instead?
I know in one video Bree said she should of been reading the comments that it looked like we had been warning her all this time. If all they are having is free time on the run, with nothing else to do but run, how could they not have so called "read" the comments?
But I guess that's getting off topic.
It's such a tricky situation, hard to come up with an idea
How long do we have before the test?

[QtheC]

Idea:

One addition or expansion to the proposal would be a type of video that was a hybrid with two sections:

Section 1: would be exactly what you have now, a video shot and then edited by the character and presenting what they choose to present to the world by posting it

Section 2: what really happened from a non-character 3rd person point of view (traditional camera role played in any television show).
This second section could be habitually indicated by a shift in music, video quality, lighting style ... something you establish and try to stick with fairly reliably. I think fans will catch on quite naturally to the difference, and this may be less confusing for fans to keep straight (and new fans to understand) than the private channels concept.

The video 0130 "The Human Ransom" is an close example, except that in this video Section 2 was accomplished by pretending that Tachyon had planted a number of cameras all around the scene.

Section 2 *could* be justified by some narrative invention (such as impartial supernatural or alien observers), but that may not fit into the mythology. And I'm not sure that is necessary.

In this suggestion, Section 2 would give the audience the "superior view" that none of the characters would have - we might see things they did not even know were there. You would not be limited to the private channel communications, but you could include such a thing in a Section 2, so this is really a superset of the original proposal.

This proposal also opens up your creative possibilities to include things a character could never video, such as flying camera pans, dreams, memories, flash-backs, etc.



Example:
Section 1 - Bree posts a video like 0128 "Me For Daniel" (talking to the world, but addressing the Order/Lucy, saying she is prepared to trade herself for Daniel).

Section 2 - We see a side view of Jonas filming Bree, the end of her previous statement, then Jonas turns off his video camera, and we see Bree ask Jonas, "Well, how was that? Do you think they will buy it?" ... Then Bree picks up the phone, dials a number, and speaks into the receiver, "Tachyon, we are ready when you are."

( and then there is much rejoicing and anticipation by the fans )



Another Example:
Section 1 - Bree posts a video like 0160 "Vegas Baby!" showing the characters enjoying Vegas, and then being chased (but we don't see by who).

Section 2 - We see an Order operative spotting the Scoobies and then giving chase, and then calling in to report, "They got away, but we think we know where they are staying..." or "The plan's working, we let them escape, but handed the message to Daniel."

[newworldview]

I like it, especially if it means that we'll finally get more information. Will we still be able to discuss plot developments that occur in private videos here on the forum eventhough we're characters and are assumed not to have seen the videos?

[CoquiDave]

I do like the idea that video's from various members should be viewable to only targetted people, (just like YouTube has the ability to group people into different categories so only they see the videos.)

Bree, Daniel, and Jonas should have a channel they can share info with each other on, or send private videos to only one or the other, (esp. regarding concerns they may have about the third party they're talking about. That'd add a dimension to the show that doesn't exist now.)

OpAphid and the Order should have their channel, viewable only by members of the Order.

Tachyon and the anti-Order forces the same.

However, every so often, I think one or the other of these three main groups should break the password protection of one of the others every so often, (hack their password when it's not changed often enough,) and get some inside intel. That'd add yet another little dimension to the show, with one group or the other suddenly knowing the moves of another, confusion about how, possible suspicion involved among characters, and finally figure out their "code" had been cracked and they need a new one.

(As sort of an explanation of where this idea comes from, this seems to be a sort of small scale, private war going on, and in warfare, (both as a Marine and military historian,) some of the greatest shifts in the momentum of battles have been the result of broken codes, with very few exceptions, every code ever devised having been broken. Hell, the "lot brighter than me" folks who play the game part of this could play a part in breaking these codes for the various sides, though from what I've seen so far, the codes would have to be pretty good or these smart folks would break 'em in no time, ruining that angle on the show. I think the folks that play the game part of this would get a real kick out of trying to break codes as well, rather than just going after the occasional drop, (those would continue as well, but the code-breaking would give 'em something to do as well that they'd enjoy wracking their collective brains on.)

I am enjoying the show, and think this is a great move, though. It's always made the "suspension of belief" a bit difficult for me that everyone posts everything where the "enemy" can see it, so this "directed messaging" thing will improve that quite a bit, though it will have to be clear who these videos are to.

Oh, and another thought just popped into my mind... How about a few occasionally misleading "public" or "accidentally misaddressed" videos by Bree designed to throw the Order off in the wrong direction? After all, she's had some "ninja" training now, and misdirection is one of the fundamentals of warfare.


Just a couple of ideas... Take 'em for what you think you can do with them.

[CoquiDave]

If one group or another suspects that their "code" (the password for their private messages,) has been broken, they could send a fake message to test the theory.

(Example, in WWII, we knew the Japanese had broken a certain code of ours, and while we'd broken their code unbeknownst to them, we sent a message that, if memory serves, said something about the water system on Wake Island malfunctioning to check if we had deduced their codeword for Wake Island correctly, and sure enough, they transmitted this "intel", and revealed that Wake Island was a target for invasion.)

There are LOTS of possibilities with this new angle y'all are going to be taking for subterfuge on all sides.

Generally just a lurker, but wanted to toss in my nickle's worth, (inflation from 2 cent's, doncha know...)

[mincartaugh]

I've been lurking in these forums for quite some time (youtube and character sites as well) and I'm thoroughly confused.

What's an ARG?
Which forum is considered a "private" forum?
Were the OpAphid videos actually imparting information? I couldn't tell.
Where do we get the videos Gemma supposedly made?
Where did Lucy show up? I just heard people start referring to her.
How do you join a group on YouTube?
Where's the coherent bit of Tachyon?

I'm not expecting you to answer these questions in this forum. I just wanted you to know that following this story line is hard work already. Not everyone is as video savvy as you are assuming here. YouTube is deplorable in their handling of this very special type of serial posting. It's much easier to follow a story line backward than it is forward and as the story progresses and becomes even more complex, this problem is only going to get more pronounced.

My suggestion is that the characters decide to go to a different site to post as they feel their posts are too open to the OpAphid group. The OpAphid group does the same. That gets them off YouTube and onto a controllable area. People will still pick up the show because all of the original postings will still be on YouTube.

Once on a self managed site, you should be able to set up specific areas for each of the characters posts and forums. You can have a public area where any of the cast can post their "public" videos; and you can have a "passworded" area for each character to keep "private" diaries; finally, you can have a split screen "video conferencing" area for call-ups.

Make the passwords easy for each area: characters log-on name or actor's name...

Even the Wiki area is confusing, btw. The questions above are not sample questions. I don't know the answer to any of them. There are real people out here who only barely follow the storyline even with diligence and intelligence. We're called "old people" and we remember when a computer was a person, not a machine.