Facility J [Profile Change] - Ground hog love

janesalteredstates · Post by **janesalteredstates** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:59 pm

So, maybe he's on the move?

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:31 pm

chershaytoute wrote:That's a good point, Mouse. I can follow once you mention the plasmid ring, but that way beyond my level of biology... This is why I'm sitting in the corner watching, for the most part, of course...

Oh, I was just quoting from History Lessons (Coded Rings). I was speculating (er, somewhat wildly it must be said) that Walter might be using this as a reminder that he's already told us what The Cure is: it's a plasmid ring.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:44 pm

Ahhh... And I just went through everything to catch up.

See, as you get older, the mind is the first to go...and the second...and the third...

Mind's like steel sieve, it is... <sigh>

Thanks for the reminder, Mouse!

Everyone, feel free to beat me over the head with a two-by-four anytime, please! (not that you did, Mouse...you were the soul of courtesy, honest!

)

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:56 pm

chershaytoute wrote:See, as you get older, the mind is the first to go...and the second...and the third...

I know how you feel (just had my 40th a couple of months back...) I'd totally forgotten about this too, until I was digging into the last line of that poem which led me to rings, which made me think "haven't I heard that word before".

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:50 pm

chershaytoute wrote: Everyone, feel free to beat me over the head with a two-by-four anytime, please!

Personally, I find that being hit with a brick sometimes helps to get my brain working again

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:52 pm

So I sent him this:

The following assumes that Walter is an intelligent, rational being.

Now, what would he reply to each statement? Let's go through each case, if he's a truthteller (T), a liar (F), or a spy who can choose to lie or not whenever he wanted (S):

Statement 1: If I were to ask you "are you working for The Order?" you would deny it.
T: If he was with the order he'd be truthful and wouldn't deny it, so the statement is false and he would truthfully reply "statement 1 is false." If he was against the order he would rigthfully deny my accusation, the statement is true, and he would truthfully reply "statement 1 is true." Thus, we can deduce his allegiance to the order from his answer: true=anti-order, false=pro-order

F: If he was with the order he would lie and deny it so my statement is true, but he would lie in his reply and send, "statement 1 is false." If he was against the order he would lie and pretend to admit that he was pro-order when he really wasn't and the statement would thus be false, but he would reply back with a lie: "statement 1 is true." We can deduce his allegiance to the order from his answer. true=anti-order, false=pro-order.

S: The statemet is false because he could freely choose whether to deny my accusation or not. So, the only question is whether he wants to reply truthfully or not. true=he lied false=truthful

Statement 2: You're just like me (see above) XOR your answer to this statement will be a lie.
From the introduction about myself, I obviously can't be a truthteller, and I can't be a liar either (the statement would be true, a contradiction). Thus, I am a spy (can choose to lie or not whenever I want, and I chose to lie on that one).

T: He's not a spy like me, and he can't lie, so the XOR statement is false. He would truthfully reply "statement 2 is false."

F: He's not a spy like me either, and his answer will be a lie, so the statement is true. He would lie in his reply and say "statement 2 is false."

S: He's a spy like me, and he can decide to lie or not in his answer. If he answers truthfully, the XOR statement is true and his reply would be "statement 2 is true." If he decides to lie, both sides of the XOR would be true, making the XOR false, and his lie for an answer would also have to be "statement 2 is true."

So, if he decides to reply, and he wants to be logically coherent, we can deduce the following:

1. true 2. true = he's a spy and lied on the first answer
1. true 2. false = he's anti-order but not a spy (either a liar or truthteller)
1. false 2. true = he's a spy and told the truth on the first answer
1. false 2. false = he's pro-order but not a spy (either a liar or truthteller)

I suspect he'd go with the 3rd option, as that's the one that gives away the least and still allows for him to be truthful.

Just thought it would be fun to try it

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:22 am

deagol wrote: He's a spy like me . . .

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:02 am

deagol, I admire you, I find much of what you do completely fascinating...and you scare the hell out of me sometimes! Huh???

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:10 am

Hey, by the definition I used there, we're all spies aren't we?

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:19 am

When you put it that way, yes, I guess we are...but you still scare me sometimes...though I do love what you do with a puzzle!

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:43 am

You should try the one in my profile! I bet mouse would like it too.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:01 am

janesalteredstates wrote:So, maybe he's on the move?

Hmmm.... It's almost too much to hope for, but if you're right Jane, he might need to drop a little ballast - maybe another vial or two of THE CURE for all mankind?

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:02 pm

deagol wrote:You should try the one in my profile! I bet mouse would like it too.

Is this one of these puzzles where the first part is to find the puzzle? Or is it to figure out how to fix the broken link?

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:01 pm

(thanks, 'mouse...I went looking and not finding, too, and I thought I posted, but the forum seems to've eaten my post)

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:18 pm

It involves quite a few things mouse, and yes, I would imagine finding the puzzle should be critical in order to solve it.