0167 - "Spring Break Sucks" [04/5/07]

Letal89 · Post by **Letal89** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:43 pm

consideration wrote:
longlostposter wrote:
kwicherbichen wrote:Why caps? To express that I am yelling at Lurker... What's it to you?
OK, KWICHERBICHEN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT FORUMS OR CHATS YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN EXPOSED TO, BUT WE DO NOT DO THIS SORT OF THING HERE.

PERHAPS YOU WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IN YAHOO CHAT.

x2

kwicherbichen · Post by **kwicherbichen** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:20 pm

Lurker wrote:
kwicherbichen wrote:Why caps? To express that I am yelling at Lurker... What's it to you?
Honestly, I'm not a fan of all caps either. They're rather frustrating to look at. It's up to you what you use, of course, but I think this and this is a more aesthetically pleasing way of indicating emphasis.

kwicherbichen wrote:Okay, I don't know what you are talking about. All she said is that women react to stress differently...
This goes back as far as "Men Are From Mars" (though it was far more annoying in that case). The reason I'm saying that it's kind of dealing in stereotypes is because those ideas she's been promoting are stereotypes, and the context of how she means it (I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she's not saying these are biological predispositions) needs to be explained. She needs to qualify what she's saying.

I think I already phrased why I feel that way as good as I'm likely to a few posts above, so I'll go ahead leave it here.

Anyway, that's my beef with her when she talks about this sort of thing.

What ideas? That men have "fight or flight" and women have something else?

kwicherbichen · Post by **kwicherbichen** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:38 pm

Luuuuuurrrkkkkeeerrrrr

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:45 pm

kwicherbichen wrote:What ideas? That men have "fight or flight" and women have something else?

Yeah, that and the notion from "Men Are From Mars" that males look only for the fastest solution to a problem while females try to sort things out. Especially the "Men Are From Mars" incident bothered me.

Bree needed to qualify what she was saying in both cases, and she didn't. Heck, in the first video she didn't even cite a study.

kwicherbichen · Post by **kwicherbichen** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:31 pm

I don't remember the Men are From Mars thing, but oh well.

anyway... Why are you mad about this? Because the studies were done on women and the DID find a difference between men and women! You can't be mad! This is the reality, isn't it?

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:36 pm

kwicherbichen wrote:anyway... Why are you mad about this? Because the studies were done on women and the DID find a difference between men and women! You can't be mad! This is the reality, isn't it?

It may be the reality, but - when there's already so many misunderstandings and, at times, unfair expectations where behavior is concerned in connection with one's sex - I think clarifying whether one is speaking in biological or sociological terms is as important as whether it's correct.

And I still say she came off looking stupid for making such generalizations in the first video when since she was the one who never wanted to talk about how she felt and Jonas was the one who did.

kwicherbichen · Post by **kwicherbichen** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:07 pm

Dude, I don't know what you keep talking about generalizations and stuff... The only thing I remember is

Men: Fight or flight
Women: Tend or befriend

I can't think of where you're getting everything else.

Anyway, is that what you want? That for each study, they also analyze whether a gender difference is inherit or not? Because that usually doesn't happen... I don't know how its even POSSIBLE.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:39 pm

kwicherbichen wrote:Dude, I don't know what you keep talking about generalizations and stuff... The only thing I remember is

Men: Fight or flight
Women: Tend or befriend

Don't forget the band-aid approach matter.

kwicherbichen wrote:Anyway, is that what you want? That for each study, they also analyze whether a gender difference is inherit or not?

Actually, that is something that should be determined if at all possible, but the same people shouldn't necessarily be responsible for conducting it.

In any case, I was talking about what Bree should have done.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:12 am

I was wondering if you were arguing over what someone taught Bree about gender or if you were arguing over what Bree said. After all, she is a teenager.

kwicherbichen · Post by **kwicherbichen** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:34 am

What Bree said. I watched the video 3 times last week. I'd watch it again right now to remember what you mean by band-aid approach but I can't.

Bree is a teen... well I'm a teen, too. I don't know what lurker is.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:24 am

Susan wrote:I was wondering if you were arguing over what someone taught Bree about gender or if you were arguing over what Bree said. After all, she is a teenager.

Agreed.

Also, kwickerbichen, she talked about the band-aid approach (which is men simply covering up the problem), in one vid. I thought it was "Men are From Mars", but it could have been another one.

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:51 pm

kwicherbichen wrote:Why are you mad about this? Because the studies were done on women and the DID find a difference between men and women! You can't be mad! This is the reality, isn't it?

Sorry, but the fact that one study came to a particular conclusion doesn't mean that "This is the reality."

I wouldn't rely on a study unless I knew something about how the study was conducted, meaning whether the researchers and their methods were reputable. I would also want to know whether any other studies have duplicated the results, or have come to completely opposite conclusions.

All of the studies that have been discussed in the past few pages of this thread apparently either have been flawed, or have been undercut, or out-and-out contradicted, by other studies.

Therefore, your statement that "This is the reality" is not supported by the evidence.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Well, to be fair, Lass, it's really only the biological studies where we find the idea of differences really being contradicted. Especially with the studies of the corpus callosum, where study findings not only contradict one another, but so do the theories about what they all mean (if they even mean anything at all is up for question in that case).

Behaviorally or sociologically speaking, there are differences that we find often enough that I would call them the reality. For instance, in polls conducted over the last several decades, females almost invariably are less supportive of military action (or even military spending), and much more supportive of programs to aid children, the elderly and the disabled. Despite popular belief, though, they're not necessarily more supportive of abortion (there's pretty equal support there).

In any case, even where we find differences that really do exist, I think it's important that we seek whether they're inherent or sociological. So far, I'm of the impression that they're mostly sociological.

kwicherbichen · Post by **kwicherbichen** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:07 pm

Therefore, your statement that "This is the reality" is not supported by the evidence.

I was referring to the fact there there ARE differences between men and women. Even if this study is replicated and results are negative for their supposition, there are more cross genderal studies -- not just this one -- that show a difference between men and women.

They don't always support that the differences are inherited or not.

A study that shows a correlation between sex and a behaviour doesn't attempt to support that the correlation is INHERIT in the sex. It attempts to show there IS a correlation OR a correlation was found in the study and someone else will elaborate further by making a new study or theory.

mincartaugh · Post by **mincartaugh** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:39 am

kwicherbichen wrote:Anyway, is that what you want? That for each study, they also analyze whether a gender difference is inherit or not? Because that usually doesn't happen... I don't know how its even POSSIBLE.

Yes, Kwich, a study like that is possible. In fact, a study has been done about the nature vs. nurture. They used pairs of identical twins that were separated at birth. The results were astounding. Seemingly obvious nurture issues like what type of car they bought or what they named their kids, or even the name of the people they married, turned out to be genetically tied somehow. It was a fascinating study!