Callmejules

[Broken Kid]

I'd also like to say that it is my opinion that being honest with someone is actually far more respectful than being "nice"..even if you hurt them. Apparently you value etiquette and social niceties more than unconditional honesty. I hope you are in the minority.

I find this conversation interesting, so forgive me folks if I'm off topic in discussing this. Also, I'm not going to dignify snarky comments like "you're high" with a discussion. (4/20 was last week!)

But what you seem to be saying is that you can either 1) Be nice and false or 2) Be honest and mean. (Of course, that's assuming you dislike something.) What I was saying is that you can be honest and not be mean. You can state your opinion and not be hurtful. You can respect someone while stating your point of view. These things are not mutually exclusive.

However, many of the crude, rude, or obnoxious comments people have been making are not respectful. So I'm trying to suggest that people keep that in mind when stating their opinion and look for ways to be respectful and honest at the same time.

[OwenIsCool]

What I was saying is that you can be honest and not be mean. You can state your opinion and not be hurtful. You can respect someone while stating your point of view. These things are not mutually exclusive.

I think the above quote says it better than I ever could. Communities (online and not) are built on mutual respect and honesty. Being caustic or overly aggressive just intimidates others while distracting from the basis for that criticism. Calling someone "high" just because they understand this concept and want to act on it, is kind of an insult to your own ability to function in such a community.

[immortal1]

I'd also like to say that it is my opinion that being honest with someone is actually far more respectful than being "nice"..even if you hurt them. Apparently you value etiquette and social niceties more than unconditional honesty. I hope you are in the minority.

I find this conversation interesting, so forgive me folks if I'm off topic in discussing this. Also, I'm not going to dignify snarky comments like "you're high" with a discussion. (4/20 was last week!)

But what you seem to be saying is that you can either 1) Be nice and false or 2) Be honest and mean. (Of course, that's assuming you dislike something.) What I was saying is that you can be honest and not be mean. You can state your opinion and not be hurtful. You can respect someone while stating your point of view. These things are not mutually exclusive.

However, many of the crude, rude, or obnoxious comments people have been making are not respectful. So I'm trying to suggest that people keep that in mind when stating their opinion and look for ways to be respectful and honest at the same time.

Many of these characters are flawed and chances are if you have a certain reaction, even a negative one, that could have been the desired result. I tried to prepare girls for that, we want a reaction. Indifference would be the worst possible reaction.

Many of the girls I've worked with are open to feedback. Like BK is trying to point out though, there is a difference between saying someone is "hammy" and suggesting they dial it back. But even before that you should ask- is it somehow apart of the character to be like that.

We are going to tie some of these characters together and within a story they will make more sense than they do by themselves. It seems many people are looking at performance instead of what the characters are saying.

[spaciegirlreturn]

Umm..no. I'm suggesting that being honest is of utmost importance, at least to me, and sometimes it doesn't come out all pretty and nice. It doesn't have to be mean. Sometimes though, even when we don't mean to be mean...or we're not trying to be mean, our comments are interpreted as mean. I would still value an honest comment even if it happened to be "mean" over a similar comment that is masked in frilly nice-ness, but that's just a personal preference.

I guess what I'm getting at is that being overly nice is just as stupid as being overly mean ultimately.

A seperate point, and I'm done after this I swear: I obviously like humor a lot..and most things that are really funny are mean on some level. I'd rather give up all the moments in my life where people were "trying to be nice" to me (and all the times I did the same thing come to think of it) than give up all the hours..maybe days..maybe weeks of hysterical laughter I've experienced that were born from something "mean".

[curiousGeorge]

That they would even consider introducing such a vapid and uninteresting character (no, I am not hammering the actress although she needs some more experience) tells me they have totally lost sight of the attraction of this thing.

Its about the Characters! Long before we were on the hunt for the c's and Jess, the attraction was the Characters themselves. Bugger all the silly cloak and dagger plot and ARG nonsense (Look where THAT got them...). The vlog medium is about portraying CHARACTERS. Duh.

And now we have this poor little girl thrown out at us, she is bound to attract criticism, deserved or not. Find us an interesting character, and I think she will be received a little better.

I think the c's are the ones who are HIGH, too much bungie jumping guys???

[spaciegirlreturn]

Communities (online and not) are built on mutual respect and honesty.

Heehe. Yeah, right.

Being caustic or overly aggressive just intimidates others while distracting from the basis for that criticism. Calling someone "high" just because they understand this concept and want to act on it, is kind of an insult to your own ability to function in such a community.

That's not why I was calling him high (which, by the way, was not literal..but god for bid anyone is sarcastic around here), and like I said, I think my idea of respect is obviously vastly different than yours or his..for many reasons.

Ok really. I'm done.

[OwenIsCool]

Sometimes though, even when we don't mean to be mean...or we're not trying to be mean, our comments are interpreted as mean.

Like you're usually not trying to be at least a little bit incisive.

I would still value an honest comment even if it happened to be "mean" over a similar comment that is masked in frilly nice-ness, but that's just a personal preference.

And yet most of your well-intentioned comments would seem to be masked in elaborate negativity.

I guess what I'm getting at is that being overly nice is just as stupid as being overly mean ultimately.

And you come off as being overly mean ultimately, which is just as bad as being overly nice ultimately. What people are trying to tell you is that you don't have to be either if you don't want.

A seperate point, and I'm done after this I swear: I obviously like humor a lot..and most things that are really funny are mean on some level.

But many of your mean comments are not funny at all, they're just mean.

Communities (online and not) are built on mutual respect and honesty.

Heehe. Yeah, right.

See what I mean? Backhanded, yes. Funny, no.

That's not why I was calling him high (which, by the way, was not literal..but god for bid anyone is sarcastic around here)

zomg no way! It was just figurative? You mean you were just referring to the delusionally content state of mind that characterizes people who have been smoking a psychoactive product of the plant Cannabis sativa? I prefer my mean comments not masked in any frilly complicated sarcasm, thanks.

I think my idea of respect is obviously vastly different than yours or his..for many reasons.

Obviously.

Ok really. I'm done.

Ok, if you say so. Actually, I'm done too, maybe I'll be back in another four months, since I almost never read the forums anymore and rarely really post here. You do have a sense of humor, sometimes you really make me LOL, but I don't like it when it's at the expense of overworked mods or people who just want to have some fun making a video. I have also been vocal (elsewhere) about my dislike for Jules, and I think the c's could use that feedback (if they ever really listen to it).
I know a lot of this probably came across as personal, but I don't really know you and was just using your replies as a case study (if you will), and my comments were intended for anybody who shares similar black-or-white, mean-or-hypocritical outlooks on the subject of feedback. I expect they may be taken personally anyway, but since I already wasted my time writing it, well what the heck.

[spaciegirlreturn]

I prefer my mean comments not masked in any frilly complicated sarcasm, thanks.

Haha..ok, touche.

[Lurker]

What's with the poll options? Keeping her entails saying that she's gold? Her not being the New Girl necessitates that she goes away? Her being killed off in order to make viewers fear for Bree implies that one would derive pleasure from the happening?

This is a pretty bad poll. Where's all the options that lay between the extreme ends of the spectrum (and outside the idea that seeing a little girl butchered - no matter how much one dislikes her - would let one get their jollies)?

This sort of thing just makes non-fans of Jules look unreasonable and polls look unreliable (the latter is actually true in general, but still).

[spaciegirlreturn]

Yeah, the poll options are kinda whacked.

[Broken Kid]

Oops, my post disappeared. Anyway, I'm glad that this discussion, while straying rather personal, didn't erupt into a flame war and maintained productivity. I think folks expressed their points. And frankly, I thought CG's post was a good example of constructive criticism. Many folks here think that Jules is likely a character and that she's not nearly fully developed enough. If it turns out to be true, perhaps they'll take our suggestions.

And I've discussed this basic principle with spaciegirl for nearly 6 months now. I'm comfortable with us agreeing to disagree. And I always do enjoy her humor (but not when she's mean, rather when she demonstrates her sharp wit and creativity).

[Susan]

A seperate point, and I'm done after this I swear: I obviously like humor a lot..and most things that are really funny are mean on some level. I'd rather give up all the moments in my life where people were "trying to be nice" to me (and all the times I did the same thing come to think of it) than give up all the hours..maybe days..maybe weeks of hysterical laughter I've experienced that were born from something "mean".

At the risk of inciting another diatribe, I have a question about this. I know people in general think hurtful can be funny but I've never been able to take pleasure in people's pain. Is there a trick to it? It would sure make life easier if I could figure out how it was done.

And people? I'm being honest here. Serious as a heart attack, as they say. This has plagued me my entire life.

[ShardinsKitten]

I don't like the jules character at all. I really really hope she is not canon. I wont watch her, i can't stand it. (yes I'm talking about the character not the person don't jump on me)

I would of said having the order kill her off, but I don't want her involved in the story line enough for even that to happen. I really hope this is a red herring, and it goes away quickly.

she is one of the worst characters that has poped up.

[sparrow]

What's with the poll options? Keeping her entails saying that she's gold? Her not being the New Girl necessitates that she goes away? Her being killed off in order to make viewers fear for Bree implies that one would derive pleasure from the happening?

This is a pretty bad poll. Where's all the options that lay between the extreme ends of the spectrum (and outside the idea that seeing a little girl butchered - no matter how much one dislikes her - would let one get their jollies)?

This sort of thing just makes non-fans of Jules look unreasonable and polls look unreliable (the latter is actually true in general, but still).

First, I was only talking about the character. I have absolutely no issue with the actress, although I think she needs a lot of experience and/or acting classes. My favorite two cult classics, Evil Dead and Army of Darkness, star Bruce Cambell. In the first, he is absolutely awful. It was also his first film. Ten years later, in the sequal(sp?), he's awesome - perfect comedic timing, dynamic, hilarious. I love him.

Second, I didn't mean for the poll to be anything serious, although I do dislike the character a lot, and hope that she won't be a permanent fixture. I don't take message boards particularly seriously, and sometimes forget that people might get feelings hurt or actually take ME seriously when I'm spouting nonsense. I'll add an option or two that are a bit more fair and balanced (thank you, Fox News).

[Kasdeja]

Hey, Bruce Campbell is a golden god!