Could the ceremony be a Mormon Temple Wedding?

[JerseyJohnny]

you're pretty sassy johnny lol

Why thank you, prudence!!!

I know I'm not very prudent, I probably should be more prudent. NAHHHH!!!

[Penny]

I think I will take the time to set you straight on some things concerning The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (aka Mormons).

I think I'll be the one to set YOU straight on some things concerning the Mormons.

First, the Temple ceremony is open to all worthy members (meaning people who are living their lives according to what Christ taught e.g. chaste, honest, etc.). If the parents are baptised, they may still be excellent people, but Christ was baptized and so all of the requirements have not been fulfilled. It is not meant to punish, though some who are hurt may claim it is.

It's exclusivity and it knows no limits, and they will prevent the parents from attending if the parents are judged to be "unworthy" by the Mormon Church. There are many people who have not been able to have their whole family attend a complete mormon wedding because of this. And this, coming from a religion which supposedly values "family". Ha, what a joke.

As for the "occult" factor, this is just your confusion (sorry, no name calling, just stating a common misconception that is wrong that you also seem to have). Technically, any religion that believes anything supernatural falls in under this category. I know that many good Christian religions (if not all, though I don't know everything about every Christian religion, sadly) believe in things like miracles, heavenly visitations, and basic guidance from a higher power which Christians have termed "God" or "Father." The Mormon church, likewise, believes in supernatural powers from the source of God in Heaven. The most important belief is by far that the Savior truly did live and that He truly did die for the sins of the world because of His great love and that He did rise again and lives today. Mormons firmly believe in the Atonement and the Resurrection of the Savior, Jesus Christ, which, by dictionary definitions, makes them Christians and not just hiding behind a "Christian veneer."

First of all, you didn't address the "occult" issue. "Occult" is not the same as "supernatural", although you attempt to equate the two. Anyone who has religious belief believes in the supernatural. "Occult", on the other hand, is a belief that one can discover and attain the hidden knowledge regarding the supernatural. "Gnosis" is another term used for this. The hermetic religions, such as Thelema, believe that one can attain knowledge which can supplant most or all "faith" a person might need in the supernatural. That is what occultism is. The Mormon church is an occult religion. They provide "revelation" of the hidden, they use the same symbolism of the general occult.

Furthermore, they do not really believe in "Jesus Christ", because they define him differently from the Jesus Christ of Christianity. It is a different "Jesus Christ" that they have. Their Jesus Christ is the brother of Lucifer, and he was a polygamist with many wives and children of his own. Their Jesus Christ does not provide complete salvation, but only provides a small degree of salvation, so that mormons must work for most of their salvation. Their Jesus Christ is one god of many, many gods, as opposed to the Christians' Jesus Christ who is the One True God. Their Jesus Christ is separate from their "heavenly father", whereas the Christians' Jesus Christ is not.

I could start calling a hockey puck a "tennis ball" and call a hocky stick a "tennis racket", and then insist that every time I'm playing hockey I'm actually playing a game called "Tennis" since I'm using a "tennis ball" and "tennis racket" to play the game. Of course, just because I redefined things to make them fit what I wanted them to be, that doesn't change the fact that I'm using a hockey stick and hockey puck and playing hockey and just changing the names around. That's what the Mormon Church does. It redefines "Jesus Christ" and then uses their false "Jesus Christ" as a basis to call themselves "Christians", which they are not.

In Mormonism, there is not ONE god, there are three: Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. They are not ONE Triune God as they are in all the rest of Christianity, but they are THREE separate gods. So, mormons are not Monotheists as Christians are, but they are polytheists. The highest god in their pantheon is "Heavenly Father", NOT Jesus Christ. So again, they are not followers of Christ, they are followers of Heavenly Father, and secondarily they follow their own made-up Christ.

As for the symbolism of the signs on the Salt Lake Temple, there is meaning behind those things, such as what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians where he wrote of worlds having the glory of the sun, moon, and stars. Much of the meaning of the symbolism can be found by reading the Bible and researching Judaism at the time of Christ and also looking into the history of early Christianity (e.g. many Greek Orthodox churches, especially the very old ones) have similar symbolism.

Interesting, I'm Orthodox and I have yet to see inverted pentagrams on any Orthodox Church. Can you give me an example? (I'm sure you can't.) The symbols on the Salt Lake City temple are easily found in other occult and hermetic religions, particularly in freemasonry and witchcraft religions. Why must Mormons always lie to try to justify their occult symbols???

And interestingly, the one symbol there is of Christianity, the cross, is nowhere to be found on the Salt Lake Temple or any other temple, or any other church/meeting house of the mormons. Go figure...and they still want to be considered "Christians".

One last thing - LDS (Mormon) marriages are not arranged and really never have been. God gave His children agency to live as they desire and gave them commandments to give them guidance on His paths. The Mormon church may give guidance on things to look for in a marriage partner (and yes, sometimes there may have been suggestions in the past), but the principle of agency is vitally important in the belief system of Mormons and no one would be forced into an arranged marriage because that is so against the idea of agency.

Tell that to the teen child brides of Joseph Smith, Brigham "Bring'em" Young or Warren Jeffs. They arranged marriages with multiple women and many of them young teens.

So while you have an interesting theory, I'm afraid that it would take too much of a stretch to end in a real Mormon Temple wedding. And I truly do hope that you are not offended by this, because that is certainly not my intent. I just feel that the world will be a much better place when we take the time to truly understand the religions around us and not judge them as bad. Christ said that "by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 6:20) and we should look at the goal of the religion to determine its value, meaning, does it teach the people to be better people or worse. Since I feel that nearly every religion does, at least to some extent, teach its followers to try to be better people and make the world a better place, I think that all religions should be treated with respect and not looked on with disdain or judgmentally.

When a religion is deceitful and misleading as the Mormon Church is, it's time to stop respecting that religion, so that's the point I'm at with them. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way. You really ought to start examining things with a more open mind regarding your Mormon religion.

I think it was you Jersey Johnny that tried to set me straight in another thread about not ripping on others beliefs...hmmm...I suppose the mormon church isn't a religion at all...otherwise you are a complete hippocrate...

[Penny]

Warren Jeffs isn't a member of the LDS church...you should do some better research... or you might end up looking like an ass.

[Penny]

You know what Jersy Johnny...you got it...you obviously know more about the LDS religion then me. I have been in the temple...I WAS SEALED IN THE SALT LAKE CITY TEMPLE. But you're right, we actually worship satan in our temple...we totally lie about what we actually believe in...it couldn't possibly be that you are getting your info from people who have left our church and are just bitter about it so they make up crap and post it on the internet. No, you know everything. Oh and you're right, OUR JESUS CHRIST IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT...a whole other person...it couldn't be that we just have a different doctrine then yours, no that can't possibly be it. Oh and the reason we don't have crosses is because we are vampires so steer clear of us mormons at night cuz we will get ya...bwahahaha!

By the way, we don't believe in using crosses because we celebrate his life and what he did here on his earth. His death is important because we believe Christ died for everyones sins but at the same time we don't need a cross to remind us of that.

You know who else uses a cross? NAZIS...since they used crosses, I guess they get your respect.

You know what? you have issues buddy...take your ignorance about religion elsewhere. All those websites you got your info will really appreciate your input

You are a great example of Christlike love and acceptance.

[JerseyJohnny]

Warren Jeffs isn't a member of the LDS church...you should do some better research... or you might end up looking like an ass.

Sure he is. He is FLDS.

[Penny]

Warren Jeffs isn't a member of the LDS church...you should do some better research... or you might end up looking like an ass.

Sure he is. He is FLDS.

The FLDS church is not accepted in the LDS church. They are in no way affiliated with us whatsoever. I really mean that. The FLDS was formed when the LDS church discontinued the practice of poligomy. They felt that the practice should be continued and the LDS church didn't. They aren't members of the LDS faith...they even have their own prophet (warren jeffs) we don't follow his teachings.

[JerseyJohnny]

You know what Jersy Johnny...you got it...you obviously know more about the LDS religion then me. I have been in the temple...I WAS SEALED IN THE SALT LAKE CITY TEMPLE. But you're right, we actually worship satan in our temple...we totally lie about what we actually believe in...it couldn't possibly be that you are getting your info from people who have left our church and are just bitter about it so they make up crap and post it on the internet. No, you know everything. Oh and you're right, OUR JESUS CHRIST IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT...a whole other person...it couldn't be that we just have a different doctrine then yours, no that can't possibly be it. Oh and the reason we don't have crosses is because we are vampires so steer clear of us mormons at night cuz we will get ya...bwahahaha!

SEE!!! For once, an honest mormon who admits that their religion is really satanism, behind the scenes!!! I KNEW IT!!!

By the way, we don't believe in using crosses because we celebrate his life and what he did here on his earth. His death is important because we believe Christ died for everyones sins but at the same time we don't need a cross to remind us of that.

The cross is an important symbol to Christians, and it represents his life, not death.

You know who else uses a cross? NAZIS...since they used crosses, I guess they get your respect.

No, that was actually a Swastika, which happens to be another occultic symbol, like the pentagrams and inverted pentagrams.

You know what? you have issues buddy...take your ignorance about religion elsewhere. All those websites you got your info will really appreciate your input.

I got my info from www.lds.org I didn't realize that they'd appreciate my input!

You are a great example of Christlike love and acceptance.

Why, thank you! That's a very nice thing to say! (I like to think I am all that and a bag of chips, anyway.)

[Penny]

I am sure you did get your info at www.lds.org...and of course you don't have a bias opinion that totally twisted what you actually read.

as far as having crosses, I have seen many a cross with Christ dying on them...so the dying body of Christ is there to help you remember his life?

A swastica is a twisted and perverted version of the cross. You don't have to like it but it's true.

Its funny that mormons haven't been considered Christians ever since we stopped being part of the Christian coalition (sp?). Our beliefs haven't changed any...maybe some other christians are a little bitter?

look, jersey johnny, I have seen you attack many beliefs here. I don't mind if it's all in good fun (like your last post). I have a sense of humor and it's all good. I, like others here, don't like my religion made out to be what it isn't.

I am not saying that all LDS people are great people. I have met my share of horrible LDS people. At the same time, we are happy how we live. We strive to improve ourselves at all times. We do believe in Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father and the Holy spirit. I don't think we should be burned at the stake for not believing in the holy trinity (that they are all the same entity). For us, they are separate but one in purpose.

I am not even touching the whole occult issue...all I am going to say is we aren't an occult (even if you and a billion other people think so). Plenty could be said about the catholic church (it also has a horrible history) but you don't see me trying to rip it apart. I don't know what else I can say except please try to be more respectful (at least civil). Just because you don't know me doesn't mean I don't have feelings.

Also, the ceremony isn't an LDS wedding. I know for a fact. You would be quite surprised how simple and short a sealing in the temple actually is. There is not speaking in another language (especially enochian - I didn't know what the heck that was until I started following the lonelygirl15 series). There is no walking around (like is supposed to happen in Bree's ceremony). It's plain, simple and special to me and countless other members of my church.

[Sfonzarelli]

Edit: ignore

[Sfonzarelli]

Furthermore, they do not really believe in "Jesus Christ", because they define him differently from the Jesus Christ of Christianity. It is a different "Jesus Christ" that they have. Their Jesus Christ is the brother of Lucifer, and he was a polygamist with many wives and children of his own. Their Jesus Christ does not provide complete salvation, but only provides a small degree of salvation, so that mormons must work for most of their salvation. Their Jesus Christ is one god of many, many gods, as opposed to the Christians' Jesus Christ who is the One True God. Their Jesus Christ is separate from their "heavenly father", whereas the Christians' Jesus Christ is not.

Normally I wouldn't care about your unfunny trolling, but I'm really curious as to what your source is on this.

[Sfonzarelli]

The cross is an important symbol to Christians, and it represents his life, not death. [...] No, that was actually a Swastika, which happens to be another occultic symbol, like the pentagrams and inverted pentagrams.

A swastica is a twisted and perverted version of the cross. You don't have to like it but it's true.

You are both totally misinformed. The swastika is a religious symbol that has been used for thousands of years by the religious practices of cultures throughout the world; China, India, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, Pre-Christian Europe, the Native Americans, to name a few examples off the top of my head. In all of India and East Asia, swastikas are predominately recognized as a symbol of Dharmic religions and not of Nazism. In fact, it's only in the Western world where the swastika carries immediate connotations of Nazism.

The cross is a symbol that predates Christianity significantly and would be considered an occult symbol by the same standards that would consider a swastika to be an occult symbol.

[JerseyJohnny]

Furthermore, they do not really believe in "Jesus Christ", because they define him differently from the Jesus Christ of Christianity. It is a different "Jesus Christ" that they have. Their Jesus Christ is the brother of Lucifer, and he was a polygamist with many wives and children of his own. Their Jesus Christ does not provide complete salvation, but only provides a small degree of salvation, so that mormons must work for most of their salvation. Their Jesus Christ is one god of many, many gods, as opposed to the Christians' Jesus Christ who is the One True God. Their Jesus Christ is separate from their "heavenly father", whereas the Christians' Jesus Christ is not.

Normally I wouldn't care about your unfunny trolling, but I'm really curious as to what your source is on this.

Try reading LDS Scripture and what their leaders have written. Or are you asking me to spoon-feed it to you? Here's some "source" to get you started in your research, which you obviously have a lot to do regarding mormonism (all emphasis, in quotes below, mine):

Mormon Jesus and Lucifer are brothers:

“In the pre-mortal spirit life Jesus, Lucifer, and all of us were the spirit children of God and His wives” (Gospel Through the Ages, pp. 15, 93-99; Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 122). (Yes, that is wives, plural)

“Jesus is Gods firstborn son Lucifer is the 2nd born on down to you and I and Jesus is our elder brother.”(The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.33)

"The appointment of Jesus to be Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer,...this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." (The Gospel Through the Ages, 1945, p. 15)

“..That Lucifer, the son of the morning, is our elder brother and the brother of Jesus Christ.” (B. McConkie, Mormon doctrine p.163-164)

Mormon Jesus was a polygamist and had children:

"...Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children." (Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 210)

"...the great Messiah...was a polygamist,...the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of Wives....God the father had a plurality of wives,...the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable Wives were to be married. We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time;..." (Mormon Apostle Orson Hyde, The Seer, p. 172)

Mormon Jesus provides some Grace, Mormons must work for the rest:

The Mormons' Third Article of Faith states: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." (In other words, Christ's Atonement covers those who do the work in obedience to laws and ordinances. Mormon "ordinances" are temple rituals.)

"There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247)

"...under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must then have their own blood shed to atone for their sins." (Apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 92)

Mormons believe there are many, many gods; also, Mormons believe that there are Heavenly Father, Christ, and Holy Spirit are three separate gods:

"Three separate personages -Father, Son, and Holy Ghost- comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship." (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine).

“…the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was…” (D&C 121:32)

The Gods plan the creation of the earth and all life thereon… (PoGP:Abraham 4:Heading)

…And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth. (PoGP:Abraham 4:1)

And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will rest on the seventh time from all our work which we have counseled. (PoGP:Abraham 5:2)

So Fonzie, if you think I left anything out, please let me know. Oh, and it would help if you research this stuff for yourself before blindly accusing anyone of "trolling". It makes you come across as especially ignorant.

[Sfonzarelli]

So Fonzie, if you think I left anything out, please let me know. Oh, and it would help if you research this stuff for yourself before blindly accusing anyone of "trolling". It makes you come across as especially ignorant.

I don't think I accused you of being wrong. Just being boring.

For example, how is any of this that big of a deal? I'll admit it's atypical for Christian organization, but the concept of a henotheistic Judeo-Christian God is as old as Judaism, and the concept of Jesus being romantically tied to Mary and Martha is as old as stories about Jesus. How does that make Mormons into Aleister Crowley?

Be more shocking plz

[Penny]

As far as Christ having any wife, that is speculation. It isn't actual LDS doctrine. An apostle from our religion may have said something like that but unless it's said in our general conferences or in our scriptures, it isn't considered doctrine in our religion. I know for a FACT that this isn't a doctrine in our church. It isn't a "secret" doctrine....IT ISN'T DOCTRINE PERIOD. There isn't any secret doctrine. Unless you are talking about what goes on in our temple and that isn't SECRET, it's SACRED - there is a difference.

So what if we believe if we need to try our hardest to get back to the Celestual kingdom (that's what we call Heaven). Our sins are atoned through Christs crucifiction but we still need to repent for our sins and never do them again.

Whatever! If you don't believe in our church then you believe we are all going to hell anyway, Why do you care what we believe? Why do you need to rip it apart in a LONELYGIRL15 forum? There are other members of my church here. We aren't following this series because according to you Bree is secretly mormon. We are following this series for the same reason everyone else is. It's interesting...THAT'S IT, no other reason.

Can't you accept that my religion is something that makes sense to me and millions of other people? It makes us happy. We choose to live this way. I am sure you love your religion and wouldn't appreciate it if the tables were turned here. So please, be civil even if you think we are in error.

[Penny]

Aleister Crowley doesn't have ties to our religion. We don't follow his teachings whatsoever.