Icaterus wrote:
Hmmm.... what is 'scene'??? And what's the difference between 'scene' and emo? I never got that one...
OK OK this is my understanding of what I see happening. I think emo is slightly darker in nature.
I think I've got this one. Yes, Emo is darker. The term "scene kid" has been around since at least the 80s. I nearly was one once, I think. Anyway, the "scene" is all about the indie music scene. You have to go to a lot of shows. . . new age, punk rock, etc. The fashion is basically the same (skinny jeans, glasses, for girls it can include skirts with funky tights).
The difference -- other than the fact that scene kids have been around longer -- is in the attitude. Emo kids are depressed, angst-ridden, moody. Scene kids are just sort of aloof.
One of my favorite jokes:
Q: How many indie rockers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: (look at person like they're really stupid). . . you don't know?
Rosencrantz: Another curious scientific phenomenon is the fact that the fingernails grow after death, as does the beard.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: Beard. . . The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all.
Scene is different now. Current scene is of the Hot Topic/latest trendy clothes variety. They wear brighter colors and have a love of dinosaurs. The teenage/music scene isn't hipster it's slightly cutesy, fashion wise, I'd say. The music varies from near bubblegum to dark. The Dresden Dolls, who call their style "punk caberet" are more scene than emo and are lyricly dark at times.
I think the main thing that is problematic here is that emo is used as a derogatory term for all punkesque music that is too mainstream to be "cool". Also, when the metal gave way to goth gave way to Korn and that era of pop-goth and all of that gave way, goth kids looked around and found the next best thing, punk-pop and brought their hot topic with them. The original artists rarely match the fans in appearance.
Humm. . . I am just an old hipster, I guess. Although I do love me some Fugazi.
Rosencrantz: Another curious scientific phenomenon is the fact that the fingernails grow after death, as does the beard.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: Beard. . . The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all.
Icaterus wrote:
Hmmm.... what is 'scene'??? And what's the difference between 'scene' and emo? I never got that one...
OK OK this is my understanding of what I see happening. I think emo is slightly darker in nature.
I think I've got this one. Yes, Emo is darker. The term "scene kid" has been around since at least the 80s. I nearly was one once, I think. Anyway, the "scene" is all about the indie music scene. You have to go to a lot of shows. . . new age, punk rock, etc. The fashion is basically the same (skinny jeans, glasses, for girls it can include skirts with funky tights).
The difference -- other than the fact that scene kids have been around longer -- is in the attitude. Emo kids are depressed, angst-ridden, moody. Scene kids are just sort of aloof.
One of my favorite jokes:
Q: How many indie rockers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: (look at person like they're really stupid). . . you don't know?
How many music elitists does it take to change a light bulb?
None of them would do it, the old light bulb was just so much better.
So I was thinking about this discussion, and it's interesting to see how folks are using the term "emo" now. I don't think any of those bands mentioned before (Fall Out Boy, Taking Back Sunday, etc.) are emo. In fact, the only band still playing that I would still classify as emo is perhaps Dashboard Confessional.
I used to be a big fan of emo in the late '90s when it spawned off from hardcore into its own style. I reviewed music from about 97-06, and I used to soak up the stuff. Then, emo was classified as more melodic hardcore typified by more intricate rhythms and guitar, powerful singing (often with some screamed accompaniment), and passionate lyrics. It was an independent thing, but when it began to get a lot of recognition in the media, every major label began to sign an emo band or two to get ahead of the "next big thing". Most of those bands didn't survive the signing, but a few are still going (see Jimmy Eat World, Dashboard).
The current crop of emoish bands are much more poppy-punk than emo. It's a completely different approach than the old emo days, but it is an evolution of those bands that longed for a major label contract and how they developed their style. There's nothing wrong with that, but at what point does something change enough to deserve a new label, not just the same label applied to a new style?
(I could go on and on with bands like Camber, Samiam, Cadillac Blindside, Jazz June, Blacktop Cadence, etc.)
ETA: I have an "emo" playlist on my iPod that I could whittle down to a CD's worth. If anyone would like a CD of late-90s, early-00s emo that I like, send me a PM with your name and address, and I'll burn you a copy.
Cool thanks I'm grasping more now. I never really got what scene kids were before.
So the dress style of scene kids and emos is similar, but emos purposely play up on the image of self-harm, depression and suicide. I think that's the difference right?
The emo music genre is becoming a different thing from the emo subculture. I know a few people who dress in emo style but don't listen to the music. I don't think they have much to do with each other any more. There's an insane argument over My Chemical Romance rofl! People seem to have really strong opinions over that bands emoness . The emo subculture today would probably identify more with MCR than they would with Dashboard Confessional.
Oh Ask A Ninja! I just watched the latest video and it's about scene kids. lol Ask A Ninja is always hilarious. It doesn't answer much more, but it's funny as always. Here's the link: http://www.askaninja.com/node/3544
Coming from a High School Senior (attempting to include the least bias possible):
"Emo" to my generation refers to music such as that of Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, Panic! At The Disco, Brand New, Etc.
It is often correlated with "Screamo" which includes bands such as Underoath and Hawthorne Heights.
The "Emo" lifestyle is usually called "Scene." "Scene" girls wear spiked belts, wifebeaters and t-shirts, ripped genes, and converses. They typically dye their hair several different colors at once, keep it straight and flat, and have long bangs covering one eye almost entirely or totally. "Scene" boys have similar style; they wear unnaturally tight pants, sometimes girls' brands, black eyeliner, and also sport the longish haircuts (by male standards) with unconventional combinations of colors and bangs to one side. They, too, wear spiked belts and converses.
"Emo" children have a strange philosophy towards life. They openly hate their lives, sometimes they are even open about self-detrimental tendencies (drugs, cutting, etc.). However, they are so open about their pessimism, that they often regard it as humorous. "Emo" kids have a unique sense of humor. They tend to make fun of every other style, stereotype, and music around them. This is ironic because they are SO FUCKING PATHETIC.
Okay, I can't be unbiased any more.
Let me just say that emo music sucks. The singers usually can't sing. They usually have whiney, treacherous voices, and when they scream it makes ME want to kill myself (and I'm not even emo). Though "emo" kids would disagree, the lyrics to "emo" music are not original, poetic, or complex. They are simple, generic songs. There is never a deep mystery behind the lyrics; nor is there ever a brilliant simplicity to them. They are simply thousands of cliches thrown together with some screams and moans in between. Secondly, the instrumental music is by no means complicated or special. The tunes can be catchy, but typically also all sound the same or similar to one another. They are usually simple tunes, with the same rhythm and chords repeated several times, changing only slightly for some kind of bridge before returning to the original tune at the end. They are most often about being rejected/dumped/poorly treated by women, or about how much high school sucked and how lonely the writer is/was/always will be. Sometimes they will also include stories about terrible neglectful parents, a deep love and need for music above all else in the world, depression, isolation, etc. Emo people often have a quirky sense of humor which is reflected in their very bizarre form of dance, often involving flailing and kicking or just jumping up and down in place and swinging one fist in the air. It is comparable to another very bizarre dance move known as "skanking" which applies to "ska" music (a happier, more upbeat form of sucky pathetic music).
Finally, Sarah is not emo. She has quoted Sylvia Plath several times, and apparently likes literature, poetry, and sad forms of art (as posted on her door). This does not in any way deem her "emo". First of all, "emo" is considered a negative term. It no longer just means "emotional" (as all forms of music, pop, r&b, hip hop, classical, opera... can all express emotion..) but instead means whiney, overdramatic, and near suicidal, with a mask of very strange manic behavior in public sometimes. While I see that Sarah does have this strange, quirky sense of humor, I feel like she is just flirtatious, not trying to cover up her profound internal pain. There is no shame in enjoying literature; there is shame in being emo. Even most emo kids get offended when called "emo" to their faces. Sylvia Plath, by no means, was emo. It infuriates me to hear her placed in the same category with MCR and FOB. Sylvia Plath was depressed, yes, and suicidal, yes, but that does not make her emo. Sylvia Plath's poetry is beautiful. While emo songs are lyrically simple, cliche-filled, and unoriginal, Sylvia Plath was able to express her sorrow with elegance, brilliance, and complexity. Sarah has not once (as far as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong) quoted a band that falls into the "emo" genre. She may very well listen to the "emo" music, I don't know. But I still would not call her emo. She is peppy, flirtatious, and CONFIDENT. Which is a big sign that she is not emo. "Emo" kids are openly hateful of themselves, usually. They also flock towards other emo kids. An "emo" kid wouldn't fall for Jonas, or Daniel. They would feel too "misunderstood" (boohoo).
It is an insult to Sylvia Plath to place her within the emo stereotype. She was an excellent writer with a haunting mental illness (major depression). "Emo" is a trend. Depression is much more serious than emo. And brilliant poetry, no matter what the subject (depression, loneliness, despair), is incomparable to something as tacky and ridiculous as "emo."
Thank you and goodnight.
"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
-- V For Vendetta <3
I have been lurking on this board since the CiW days but I have never felt the urge to post until now. As soon as the creators started throwing around the term emo I started to groan. I was going to write this long post about how everyone on the board is wrong and how no one knows what true “emo” really is. But, after reading BK’s last post I see I was totally wrong in my assumption. BK is 100% correct in his definition of emo, I don’t think I could have said it any better myself. The bands from the 80’s and 90’s are the only bands that should even be considered emo. In my opinion emo is dead and has been for many years.
Bands like My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy and any other bands like them that are around now are NOT emo bands. They sound NOTHING like the original bands from the 80’s and 90’s. The emo bands around today are basically the new boy bands. All of those bands are complete carbon copies of each other put out by record labels because this is the “big thing” right now. Just like the Backstreet Boys and N’Sync were popular in the 90s; the new “emo” bands are popular today and will probably be gone in 5 years when the kids who listen to them grow up and find good music to listen to.
Here is a link to a site that talks about the history of emo:
SweenieFace wrote:Bands like My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy and any other bands like them that are around now are NOT emo bands. They sound NOTHING like the original bands from the 80’s and 90’s. The emo bands around today are basically the new boy bands. All of those bands are complete carbon copies of each other put out by record labels because this is the “big thing” right now. Just like the Backstreet Boys and N’Sync were popular in the 90s; the new “emo” bands are popular today and will probably be gone in 5 years when the kids who listen to them grow up and find good music to listen to.
Welcome to the forum, SF.
What you say about the record companies may be true, but I'm not sure if those two bands are really the best examples. As far as I understand it (and I could very well be wrong; someone correct me if I am), both bands got together on their own without a Lou Pearlman character, and both of them write their own songs. If true, that's something which - in my opinion - instantly sets them apart from bands like Backstreet Boys and *NSync.
I think they would also agree with you that bands of the past should be called emo, not them. Both bands have rejected the title, MCR preferring to be classified as rock and FOB preferring pop or punk.
MCR isn't rock. I don't know what they are. They're just freaks.
I have to agree with SF that these bands can be compared easily to the BSB or Nsync. I see what you are saying, Lurker. And yes, I think they do write their own music, however, their lyrics are unoriginal and cliche-y, much the the boy bands of the 90s. Also, the themes of their music resembles those of the boy bands: girls, heartache, sex, and rejection. The "emo" bands are just a tad more explicit, I suppose.
Another difference you might say, is that the emo bands usually have instruments that they can play. However, I'd like to mention that they are rarely any better at instrumental playing than any other teenager trying to find an emotional outlet in music.
Also, the boy bands and the emo bands have similar vocal talents. Neither of them have any, I should say. They have those awful whiney voices. And, while the boy bands danced around, their voices worsened, much like the emo bands jumping around like idiots and sounding like bob dylan on helium ( sry i had to). But the boy bands were smart enough to lip sync so little kids could pretend they were superhumans who were able to sing while they break danced.. broke danced? lol idk.
I'm sure Nick Carter and Justin Timberlake (PUKE) have almost as much if not more talent than Pete Wentz and all the other emo band guys of whom I can't remember the names because they aren't even goodlooking.
I'm sorry. This just makes me angry.
If you want some lyrically brilliant music, try Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, the Stones, the BEATLES, billy joel... there's plenty of emotion in these REAL rock songs and they don't have to scream bloody murder or wear pants that shrink their testicles until they pop.
"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
-- V For Vendetta <3
There are some other comments I'd like to respond to but that would just be wanking (). The discussion here has never been the relative merits of genre A vs B. We are just trying to clear up why "Emo" is the wrong label for Sarah. We all seem to agree on that regardless of our primary genre of interest or the breadth of our musical taste or "lack" of, preference or hate, experienced or novice, studied or dilettante, etc etc etc.
We are all unique snowflakes and that should be respected godamnit.
PS: Not all "fill in blank" is bad. Remember not all "fill in blank" is good.
ex: Hard Day's Night...srsly y'all. Catchy but not deep.
PPS: "scream bloody murder or wear pants that shrink their testicles until they pop"
I have the clearest, most frightening visual of Steven Tyler and I expect you to pay for the brain bleach. *shudders*
Last edited by tigerlilylynn on Mon May 21, 2007 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. The emo subculture today would probably identify more with MCR than they would with Dashboard Confessional.
