Denderah - Crowley - Thelema - A.A. connections?

[tannhaus]

that's why i personally feel that having all of you thelema experts on here is almost counterproductive. i mean you guys know more than wikipedia, more than the websites out there, and let's not forget more than those who 'research for 10 min online and think they know more than you', and certainly i'm sure you know more than the creators themselves.

About Thelema? Umm yes, we do. I guarantee you that each of us has no less than $500 in books or access to them at the very least. We study. We study a lot.

Thelema isn't a religion where you're told what to believe. You have to research. You have to be a stickler for details. You have to pull up obscure references. It's not something you're going to know a lot about even in a year.

So, do we know more about Thelema than the creators? Absolutely and obviously. I spent two years with the Hare Krishnas...which have nothing to do with the occult. I was going to their temple 2-3 times a week. After even a year, did I understand them? No. After 2 years I had a reasonable understanding.

So no...you're not going to know as much as us about Thelema. When we disagree about points, you're not going to know the background behind the points, etc. But, that is why we're here. We all came to offer help in understanding us....in understanding our religion. We disagree on some things...based upon our backgrounds and the way we see certain things...but we agree on a lot more.

Could you use this as a learning experience? Yes. You've got several thelemites in here with varied insights. Do you have to? No. But, we feel the need to defend our religion...and one way of doing that is making ourselves and some of what we know available to you. We're attempting to demystify things and allow you to put faces on what otherwise might be a faceless religion.

[sororyzbl]

We're actually agreeing, we're just extreme sticklers for details. It's why there are so many splinter groups.

sorry, but i've seen you disagree with each other several times on this board..

When it comes to our respective orders, yeah. when it comes to our particular interpretations of Liber AL, you have, but it's all the same details, rephrased, if you read them close enough.

that's why i personally feel that having all of you thelema experts on here is almost counterproductive. i mean you guys know more than wikipedia, more than the websites out there, and let's not forget more than those who 'research for 10 min online and think they know more than you', and certainly i'm sure you know more than the creators themselves.

Nah, we just keep everything even more suspenseful by telling you what's NOT going to happen next. Namely, what the people who research for 10 minutes online tell you is.

i myself have grown tired of this. off topic drama aside. trying to find clues is pointless, because a thelemite will just chime in telling you that the information out there is false.. and by posting it you are attacking them. to me this board has become nothing more than a place for thelemites to spread their own version of the religion they follow.

Well, if someone were to post accurate information about Thelema, we wouldn't get caught up in these discussions.

And when someone calls someone else's prophet a pedophilic murderer, there's bound to be a reaction. Hell, Muslims KILL people for even drawing a picture of their prophet.

[tannhaus]

to me this board has become nothing more than a place for thelemites to spread their own version of the religion they follow.

The version of a religion by the followers is the ONLY version of the religion. If there is another version out there, it is false...since it's obviously not what the followers believe.

[missmars]

Thank you
You 2 have only further proven my point.
You know more about Thelema than the creators. The creators are only gonna use information they can find, and as far as I know they did not consult any of you.

The little things you guys are getting hung up on are irrelevant. The age thing, and the people in attendance. Both of which were disputed by another thelemite, but that's beside the point. We know how old she is, and we have seen who and how many were in attendance. Whether it matches up with your view of Thelema or not doesn't matter. It's in the videos. This whole argument about the stele of revealing, whether it was partly taken for that certain ritual or wholly or not at all, it doesn't matter. It still connects Aleister Crowley - Denderah - and Thelema together and that was my point.

If you want to set up your own forum and dedicate it to educating and correcting the false information out there about your religion.. do it. This isn't the place for it. This place is meant to discuss Bree's religion. It might be similiar to yours or be rooted in yours, but it is not your religion. You've expressed that many times. They are not accurately portraying Thelema as you know it. So why do you think you are the experts here?

I know you guys all hate me, but I don't care. It's not that you aren't welcome to add the info as you know it, but why must you continue to beat it into ours heads? It's not that I believe this or I believe that. I take it all in and try to look at the big picture. It's not worth fighting over mundane details when any little thing could have been changed or missed by the creators.

Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say?

I asked if the website was wrong and someone jumped down my throat like how dare you insult the thelemite. what the crap.

[tannhaus]

The little things you guys are getting hung up on are irrelevant. The age thing, and the people in attendance. Both of which were disputed by another thelemite, but that's beside the point.

Yes, he disputed the age thing...for his branch of the A.: A.: and a couple of smaller OTO related groups. However, the attendence thing he didn't dispute. He was going on about later rituals for higher grades. He's stated that it is in no way an A.: A.: ritual

This whole argument about the stele of revealing, whether it was partly taken for that certain ritual or wholly or not at all, it doesn't matter. It still connects Aleister Crowley - Denderah - and Thelema together and that was my point.

Well, the thing is, when people make statements about thelema or thelemic groups, even if they're referencing the videos and whatever clues, they're still speaking about a religion....our religion. So, we come in to set the records straight about statements about OUR religion, but each one of us has stated time and again that Bree's religion is fictional. But, as long as people disagree with that and make statements about our religion, we'll keep reading them and state when something is incorrect.

I know you guys all hate me, but I don't care.

I can't speak for the others definitively, but I know that I personally do not hate you and I very seriously doubt any of the other thelemites do as well. You're taking it personally when we correct your statements about our religion, but we're not. That is why we're here. Now, if you attack us personally or try to bash our religion, yes, we take it personally because you've made it such. But, just correcting statements....that's not personal. We just want our religion portrayed in an accurate light.

[thelemaman]

FYI, I don't hate you and the disagreements between me and Tann and YZBL (Jezebelle) are based on our experiences in our respective orders, the Caliphate OTO and A.'.A.'. and my own experiences in at least two branches of the OTO. You aren't doing anything wrong in my eyes, it is just your approach and use of language, the words you have chosen and that you seem incredulous because of your choice of words. I try not to knee jerk to what you say and try to understand where you are coming from but it does seem that you want to tell Tannhauser and YZBL that they are wrong no matter who is right and who is wrong.

[missmars]

It's not worth fighting over mundane details when any little thing could have been changed or missed by the creators.


I have already said many times that I don't think it's meant to be the true A.A., but something similiar and fictional. You can't give up the A.A. thing dude. I get it, how many times?

The website you are disputing isn't the website of your branch or organization or religion or whatever. Right? Obviously it's what they believe or it wouldn't be on their freaking website. Right?

But again it doesn't even matter. I never once said it was any of these religions, yours or any other. I've only said that they are basing Bree's religion on elements found within these many different branches of Thelema. They all use basically the same texts, and we could find clues as to what is coming by looking into them. You act like I just make things up to slander Thelema. No, I only post things I find. Things that are at least accurate to whoever wrote it. If you want to dispute them, dispute them. Debate them over your differences, not me.

[missmars]

I try not to knee jerk to what you say and try to understand where you are coming from but it does seem that you want to tell Tannhauser and YZBL that they are wrong no matter who is right and who is wrong.

I'm not saying they are wrong. If that's what they believe, it's what they believe. I'm just saying it's not the information I found, not saying that it's right. Right and wrong go out the window when your talking religion anyways. Everyone has different beliefs and views. I'm just saying that it's out there, and could be something the creators are drawing from.

[Kasdeja]

When are we going to finally realize that it's a fictional religion these creators have made? Instead of telling people they don't know their own religion...I mean...come on.

[Sheikh Gomelez]

When are we going to finally realize that it's a fictional religion these creators have made? Instead of telling people they don't know their own religion...I mean...come on.

I don't think it's winter in Hell yet.

On a more serious note, I'll add that there are many different ways of "drawing on" a given source. How many works are based on actual events or inspired by a true story?

Someone should attempt a screenplay with dialogue based upon the posts on this board. Call it My Dinner With Bree: Andre Is Sleeping...

[sororyzbl]

FYI, I don't hate you and the disagreements between me and Tann and YZBL (Jezebelle) are based on our experiences in our respective orders, the Caliphate OTO and A.'.A.'. and my own experiences in at least two branches of the OTO. You aren't doing anything wrong in my eyes, it is just your approach and use of language, the words you have chosen and that you seem incredulous because of your choice of words. I try not to knee jerk to what you say and try to understand where you are coming from but it does seem that you want to tell Tannhauser and YZBL that they are wrong no matter who is right and who is wrong.

It's pronounced ISABEL. It's not greek.

there, Thelemites DO disagree!

[sororyzbl]

The website you are disputing isn't the website of your branch or organization or religion or whatever. Right? Obviously it's what they believe or it wouldn't be on their freaking website. Right?

It actually is, it's an OTO body. Golden Lotus encampment in California.

They're actually not *wrong* per-se, they've just over simplified and took out important details. Ahathoor (Hathor) is just one of the dieties mentioned in Resh.