Time for the Jets to cool

sororyzbl · Post by **sororyzbl** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:13 am

OK, there has been a ton of misunderstandings and flared tempers on the board, and I think we need to clear some things up.

First of all, the Thelemites on the board are *not* here to be assholes. We're clearing up misconceptions, and making sure that our faith/philosophy is portrayed accurately and fairly. To be honest, other than Daniel's little "Kidnapped a girl" rumour about AC, there hasn't been much at all in the way of bad talking of any Thelemic concepts in the videos themselves. The problem has come up on the forums, with people doing their own research, and saying "Well, this website says this, so you're wrong". When people do some search and find a copy of one of our Holy Books or official rituals and say "this is what's gonna happen!", we're going to tell you it's probably wrong, or state the purpose of that book, or tell you what is required of the person, or basically say "this is not gonna happen in LG 15 because..."

Between Me and Tannhaus, there's probably about 30 years of study of Thelema. I don't know who Thelemaman is, but he's also knowledgeable about Thelema (even if he doesn't understand (care?) that Caliphate is a bad word). So yeah, telling us we're WRONG is going to upset us a little bit, we've yet to annhilate the ego. We're going to defend ourselves. But, as Tannhaus has stated, none of us hate anyone on here (well, I kinda think JJ is an a*****e, but that's just cuz he's from Jersey).

Please, please do not take it personally if we state that a particular thing is incorrect. At the same time, we could be wrong. There could actually be a secret society called the Order of Denderah that celebrates the Goddess Hathor and hails AC as a saint for all the three of us know. Hell, I know of at least 3 or 4 groups that WORSHIP Aleister Crowley. Not as a man, or a prophet, but as a second coming of the antichrist kinda guy. There are offshoots of Thelema that 5 people have heard of, and those 5 people are the only ones in it. Hell, you should see the huge grand EGC cathedral I have in my head.

The point of this post is two fold. First of all, we're just here to tell people that the practices portrayed in LG 15 are NOT mainstream(ha ha) or orthodox Thelema. It is either a fictional religion, or super double secret probation sect.

Second of all, I dunno about the other two, but I'm f'in addicted.

Sheikh Gomelez · Post by **Sheikh Gomelez** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:26 am

Seconded. Or it'll all end in tears. If we don't stop our bickering, our actions could bring on terrible consequences. Perhaps we'll fall pray to a penny dreadful character and finish our virtual lives as object-lessons in what happens when people who behave wickedly become prey for worse sinners.

Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd.
His skin was pale and his eye was odd.
He shaved the faces of gentlemen
who never thereafter were heard of again.
He trod a path that few have trod
did Sweeney Todd
the demon barber of fleet street.
He kept a shop in London town.
Of fancy clients and good renown
and what if none of their souls were saved
they went to their maker impecably shaved.

sweeneyiswatching

Sfonzarelli · Post by **Sfonzarelli** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:29 am

As someone who's into Aleister Crowley, my main beef with you guys is that you're giving the uninformed the impression that everyone who's into Aleister Crowley is a humorless quasi-Scientologist minor bureaucrat/pendant incapable of percieving irony and obsessed with sociopolitical legitimacy.

"Enemies have two notable weaknesses.
1. No sense of humor. They simply don't get it.
2. They totally lack understanding of magic.."
-William S. Burroughs

You may have #2 down, but where's #1?

You guys seem to be stuck in 1910 - obsessing over details of Crowley's biography, defending reactionary and outdated aspects of his philosophy, and clinging to gimp incarnations of defunct organizations. You probably still think A.O. Spare is evil. It's as if you guys were physicists who refuse to acknowledge any progress in the field of physics after Einstein because you've built a cult of personality around Einstein. You want to correct misconceptions about your religion and defend your religion from percieved slander and malicious attack - why? Why are you expecting anything constructive to come of immitating the tactics of Mormons, Scientologists, and Wiccans? How do you reconcile this with Crowley's own love of furthering misconception about aspects of his life? Do you honestly think he'd care? Crowley was a mischief-maker and a revolutionary, not a pencil-pusher.

Post by **wintermute** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:32 am

Sfonzarelli wrote:Do you honestly think he'd care?

Nah... He'd eat a baby or two and be done with it.

'mute

sororyzbl · Post by **sororyzbl** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:40 am

Sfonzarelli wrote:As someone who's into Aleister Crowley, my main beef with you guys is that you're giving the uninformed the impression that everyone who's into Aleister Crowley is a humorless quasi-Scientologist minor bureaucrat/pendant incapable of percieving irony and obsessed with sociopolitical legitimacy.

Maybe I should detail the secret ritual I performed last night, which involved a pastry magickally transformed into a dozen donuts, invoking OJ simpson wearing nothing but a bikini top and oversized suit jacket. With a stuffed unicorn sticking out of it. Facing pittsburgh. All of it for the purpose of making some cool crap appear in the attic that I'd never gone into. I found some readers digest condensed books, a plastic palm tree, and my childhood.

I'm a Subgenius, I can't take anything seriously. I personally see a lot of Erisianity in the LG 15 saga, people just keep mistakening it for Thelema.

Soror YZBL, OTO, aka Soror Bebe DansLeCoin, CotSG

spaciegirlreturn · Post by **spaciegirlreturn** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:41 am

I totally agree..(mostly).':twisted:'I appologize for implicating you in my arguements previously. I, for one, have no issue with Thelema or the fact that you are defending it.I simply had an issue with the tone and manner in which Tannhaus does so. I also do agree that things have gotten blown way out of proportion and that discussion has moved off topic. I can't stand being misinterpreted or misrepresented, which is what, I feel, has been taking place. (not by you at all) I'm over it. It's squashed. My original intent at posting anything at all in this topic was to squash it....though, admittedly, it has turned into something else, which is partially my fault.
P.S. Sororyzbl, I also think that you are, by far, the most attractive woman on this forum..for what it's worth.

sororyzbl · Post by **sororyzbl** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:41 am

wintermute wrote:
Sfonzarelli wrote:Do you honestly think he'd care?
Nah... He'd eat a baby or two and be done with it.

'mute

I have it in the highest confidence that he only ate baby seals.

Post by **wintermute** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:44 am

sororyzbl wrote:
wintermute wrote:
Sfonzarelli wrote:Do you honestly think he'd care?
Nah... He'd eat a baby or two and be done with it.

'mute
I have it in the highest confidence that he only ate baby seals.

Ah... I thought I might have had that confused. Thanks for clearing that up!

'mute

tannhaus · Post by **tannhaus** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:49 am

Sfonzarelli wrote:You want to correct misconceptions about your religion and defend your religion from percieved slander and malicious attack - why? Why are you expecting anything constructive to come of immitating the tactics of Mormons, Scientologists, and Wiccans? How do you reconcile this with Crowley's own love of furthering misconception about aspects of his life? Do you honestly think he'd care? Crowley was a mischief-maker and a revolutionary, not a pencil-pusher.

Yes, Crowley was a revolutionary. So was Jesus. So was Mohammed. So was every other person to start a religion. I don't see your point there.

For instance, Martin Luther...now there was a revolutionary. But, we don't see the protestants running around going "NAH! In your face, catholics! We don't believe in your pope. We're evvilllllllll."

No, that would be ridiculous. Any religion that can't move past the revolutionary phase probably doesn't have any substance to it. It exists as a revolutionary movement only. But, thelema isn't that way. We have just as much substance as any other religion.

It's interesting in your examples of groups we're like, that you quoted three groups which are probably the largest maligned religions out there. Yes, when we're a persecuted religion, we act like one. That's no big surprise because.....we're a religion....and we're persecuted.

As far as what Crowley would have wanted, I believe he would have wanted the religion to evolve over time....to become more than it was. As far as the way he acted when people accused him of lies, well, the fact we're sitting here defending him 60 years after his death for those SAME lies....that really says something. Crowley's approach was wrong.

You brought up the Wiccans....and that was a great choice. When the wiccans came onto the scene, witchcraft was considered evil. ANYONE who heard it thought they were sacrificing babies, etc. But, the Wiccans fought against the lies. They fought against the misconceptions. They demanded acceptance. Now, you have shows like Charmed on tv. It's not buying into the old stereotype of witches..it's using the new image that Wicca has put forth. Now THOSE are revolutionaries....

Are they all the way there? No. But, they're gaining ground every day. Just recently, the army had to back down and allow a pentacle on a soldier's gravestone. It was a long fight, but the revolutionaries won.

Thelema is not about scaring people around you. It's a real religion...and it's high time it has its place among the religions of the world.

foolslovehermits · Post by **foolslovehermits** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:08 pm

Sfonzarelli wrote:You want to correct misconceptions about your religion and defend your religion from percieved slander and malicious attack - why? Why are you expecting anything constructive to come of immitating the tactics of Mormons, Scientologists, and Wiccans? How do you reconcile this with Crowley's own love of furthering misconception about aspects of his life?

Clearly, you start off with the assumption that a person is not doing their true will. As far as I know, no one is under any obligation to explain or defend their actions whether they are done under will or not. Further, whatever Crowley did in relation to Thelema is not something that necessarily should be emulated; unless it it your true will of course.

As a side note, I find the borderline fanaticism of the LG15 fans to be hilarious. If folks put as much effort into searching for meaning and connections between things in their own life as they do fiction who knows where it would lead them.

iamcool · Post by **iamcool** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:11 pm

is it just me that thinks tannhaus is a complete tool?

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:22 pm

Wow, way to bring the idiotic flaming back...AFTER Nora just locked a thread...JUST FOR THAT. And, this thread was started to cool jets. If you want to flame people, go to MSN chat.

sororyzbl · Post by **sororyzbl** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:23 pm

Kasdeja wrote:Wow, way to bring the idiotic flaming back...AFTER Nora just locked a thread...JUST FOR THAT. And, this thread was started to cool jets. If you want to flame people, go to MSN chat.

thank you.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:24 pm

Pas de quoi

Sheikh Gomelez · Post by **Sheikh Gomelez** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:31 pm

Time for the Jets to cool. And Sharks, you need to chill, too.