0201 -- "Opening the Box" [05/29/07]

[Nieriel.Manwathiel]

i think we thought of the "free will"
perhaps free will so it doesn't bring legal problems.
maybe they need large amounts of blood that they can't just sneak away. :up for this being a Sacrificial Ceremony:

[Haether]

ok, clearer, and what does it say at the top there?

it says hairpin ribozyme (which is a type of ribozyme)

[Haether]

Story-wise, I like this idea, but I'm curious about how you got from ribozymes to gene therapy.

ribozymes cleave ends off RNA strands (although the mechanism is not entirely understood at this time). This ability to modify strands of RNA can stop certain strands from being translated into proteins. It's a direction drug development is currently going; although ribozyme research really is in its infancy--they were only discovered in the early 80's.

[Bif Nasty]

This is what I am saying! They are going to mass produce a virus and then offer to antidote to the ones who are willing to join them.

[MintyBeast]

Will isn't always about what Bree wants though.

This is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

Chief among the precepts of Thelema is the sovereignty of Will: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." Crowley's idea of will, however, is not simply the individuals desires or wishes, but also incorporates a sense of the person's destiny or greater purpose: what he termed "True Will".

The second precept of Thelema is "Love is the law, love under will" — and Crowley's meaning of "Love" is as complex as that of "Will". It is frequently sexual: Crowley's system, like elements of the Golden Dawn before him, sees the dichotomy and tension between the male and female as fundamental to existence, and sexual "magick" and metaphor form a significant part of Thelemic ritual. However, Love is also discussed as the Union of Opposites, which Crowley thought was the key to enlightenment.

[TOSG]

i think we thought of the "free will"
perhaps free will so it doesn't bring legal problems.
maybe they need large amounts of blood that they can't just sneak away. :up for this being a Sacrificial Ceremony:

Legal problems...like those brought about by kidnapping, drugging, murder, etc....?

If all the order needed was Bree's blood, they'd just kill her and take it. They've already shown that they're quite willing to murder.

[saralynn]

Is the positive trait genetic? Maybe they need her blood, but instead of killing her they take what they can without killing her, then impregnate her and hope she produces a child that's trait positive?

I'unno.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

Well, that's nice. We finally find out the trait!

Too bad I had a shitload of work and missed all the action.

Okay so I have a few thoughts before I go and tomorrow I'll read the thread.
Don't yell at me if ppl already said them, I just want to get my thoughts out before I lose them.

The Ribozymes. I remember doing research on them a while back. I think it was in the Bree Phone Home video? Back when Bree first went to Jonas's I think she talked about her dad working with ribozymes.

Her dad was trying to "fix her." Weird phrasing, Daniel, but okay. Anyway, does this mean he wasn't really injecting her with epogen? And how do the iron pills relate? I have to research this stuff tomorrow, or maybe someone did already and I'll find out tomorrow.
But anyway, I've been saying forever that her dad was pretending to be in the Order but was really against it!

Jonas so totally l'cares for Bree. His look when Daniel said they might marry her off? Cuuuute.
And it's funny how much he doesn't like Sarah. lol.

I'm thinking that although the ribozymes are a key trait, there are other ones needed for the Ceremony girl too. Remember, Bree said girls with potential are chosen at birth, and those that exhibit certain traitS after puberty are used in the Ceremony. Not only did she use the plural, but what other traits are there? I think the ribozyme levels can be tested at birth. But after puberty, what makes them eligible??

With the collage thing, the first thing I thought of was that Bree was a clone and that was something the original "bree" made for her biological dad.

But anyway, I bet there's something to her hand signals. And I also wouldn't be surprised if there were clues behind those pictures.

WTF WITH NOT SHARING THE REST OF THE LETTER. UGH.

Also, all this time I thought science was a huge priority in the Order. It turns out her dad was using science to disprove the Hymn of One beliefs! Interesting. Proving Science Wrong = Proving the Hymn of One Correct? Bree!

I'm still confused about the "purity bond." I think that has to do with other needed traits in the Ceremony girls.

Okay, done.

[Ruberic]

Question:

The father stated that he was injecting Bree to cause her to become trait negative.

I have a problem with this. WHY would the order STILL be injecting her if they need her to be TRAIT POSITIVE??

Unless, her father in in the order still...still injecting her...and writing her "comments" for the video?

Just a possibility...not one that I am really sold on though.

But WHY would they inject her still if it may make her trait negative?

[impulse]

But WHY would they inject her still if it may make her trait negative?

It depends on the drug they're injecting her with. You know that, don't you?

[Ruberic]

Yes, I do realize that (I work in medicine). However, if we are to assume that it is in the same place as the Epogen...and the order's storehouse was full of Epogen in its original, untouched container (thus eliminating most chances of manipulation of the drug due to STRICT standards held at pharmaceutical manufacturers these days)...and using Ochams Razor = Epogen. The same drug her father was giving her to "cause trait negative" effect.

Oh:

BTW:

Hairpin Ribosome is being tested currently as a treatment for single allele genetic dysfunctions in cells. That is, the are being tested to treat (possibly cure) genetic diseases at the cellular level. Already occular studies (slowing down the development of rod functional blindness) has been carried out in animal subjects with success.

There is also thought that, by utilization of this method, DNA repair may be triggered as well. Research into this has a LOT of interest since...if we could do this...AIDS could be cured.

Finally, it is already possible to use a ribosyme and introduce it into a person as a medication. To do this, you take an adenovirus (usually associated with a cold-like sickness), wipe out its natural nucleus, and introduce the ribosyme into its capsul. Introducing the altered adenovirus will cause the viral capsul to "attack" receptored cells, injecting its ribosyme into the cell.

Since Ribosymes have been shown to slow down the affects of mutated cells, there is some belief that it may also be used to slow down the aging process as well.

Just some info.

[impulse]

Yes, I do realize that (I work in medicine).

Excellent! I don't know why we assume epogen is what Bree was injected with by her father OR is injected with now. We just know epogen is useful to someone, and most probably the Order. But as far as I know, we have no evidence Bree's father was injecting her with that stuff. (He could have change the drug without Bree's mom knowing it, blahblahblah ....). Also, and since you work in medecine, I have to say that I never fully understood what epogen is for.... Maybe you have a good explanation for that.

Hairpin Ribosome is being tested currently as a treatment for single allele genetic dysfunctions in cells. That is, the are being tested to treat (possibly cure) genetic diseases at the cellular level. Already occular studies (slowing down the development of rod functional blindness) has been carried out in animal subjects with success.

There is also thought that, by utilization of this method, DNA repair may be triggered as well. Research into this has a LOT of interest since...if we could do this...AIDS could be cured.

Finally, it is already possible to use a ribosyme and introduce it into a person as a medication. To do this, you take an adenovirus (usually associated with a cold-like sickness), wipe out its natural nucleus, and introduce the ribosyme into its capsul. Introducing the altered adenovirus will cause the viral capsul to "attack" receptored cells, injecting its ribosyme into the cell.

Since Ribosymes have been shown to slow down the affects of mutated cells, there is some belief that it may also be used to slow down the aging process as well.

Just some info.

The more you guys are getting into the medical aspect of all this and the more Bree looks like a lab rat. In the back of my head, I believe in the theory that they're trying to defeat age and death, although I personally don't have any argument to support that.

[Lurker]

Yes, I do realize that (I work in medicine). However, if we are to assume that it is in the same place as the Epogen...and the order's storehouse was full of Epogen in its original, untouched container (thus eliminating most chances of manipulation of the drug due to STRICT standards held at pharmaceutical manufacturers these days)...and using Ochams Razor = Epogen. The same drug her father was giving her to "cause trait negative" effect.

Using Occam's Razor would necessitate that you go with an explanation that doesn't introduce a plot inconsistency like the one you've brought up. In this case, since Bree's dad's notes say that injecting Bree with Epogen would result in her becoming trait negative, the obvious explanation is that he was supposed to be injecting her with something else.

If she wasn't supposed to be on the diet, taking the pills, getting shots, etc., then the Order would have brought hell down on him a lot sooner than they did. Using the assumption that the most simple explanation is the best, Bree's dad must have switched whatever he was supposed to be injecting into Bree with the Epogen.

Hairpin Ribosome is being tested currently as a treatment for single allele genetic dysfunctions in cells. That is, the are being tested to treat (possibly cure) genetic diseases at the cellular level. Already occular studies (slowing down the development of rod functional blindness) has been carried out in animal subjects with success.

There is also thought that, by utilization of this method, DNA repair may be triggered as well. Research into this has a LOT of interest since...if we could do this...AIDS could be cured.

Finally, it is already possible to use a ribosyme and introduce it into a person as a medication. To do this, you take an adenovirus (usually associated with a cold-like sickness), wipe out its natural nucleus, and introduce the ribosyme into its capsul. Introducing the altered adenovirus will cause the viral capsul to "attack" receptored cells, injecting its ribosyme into the cell.

Interesting concept. Does it always work?

[Renegade]

Using Occam's Razor again... -_-

[Bif Nasty]

But WHY would they inject her still if it may make her trait negative?

It depends on the drug they're injecting her with. You know that, don't you?

It might not be injecting her. They might be drawing blood.