OoD vs Resistance

[wh_pirate]

She ran away from them and back to you because you (the order) told her a whole bunch of crap about how dangerous they are and that if she didn't stay with the order, the guys lives would be in danger.

[Esteed]

I just love the way false righteousness can breed true foolishness. Erica, OoD, run along and play your make believe elsewhere. The world has enough people with delusions of religiosity in it without your rather laughable attempts.

[EricaCrowley]

She ran away from them and back to you because you (the order) told her a whole bunch of crap about how dangerous they are and that if she didn't stay with the order, the guys lives would be in danger.

I think not.

[EricaCrowley]

I just love the way false righteousness can breed true foolishness. Erica, OoD, run along and play your make believe elsewhere. The world has enough people with delusions of religiosity in it without your rather laughable attempts.

I am far from righteous that is just not me, but reality is simply reality.

[Esteed]

I just love the way false righteousness can breed true foolishness. Erica, OoD, run along and play your make believe elsewhere. The world has enough people with delusions of religiosity in it without your rather laughable attempts.

I am far from righteous that is just not me, but reality is simply reality.

The irony of those words coming from a member of the Order is absolutely hilarious. If you and your little misfit collection really accepted reality as it was, you wouldn't be pressuring Bree into making any kind of choice that she didn't want to make. And don't kid yourselves for one second, societal pressure counts as pressure. You know Bree absolutely hates it when she feels people are upset or disapprove of her actions, so of course she'll feel pressured to do what these people that she's grown up as part of tell her to do.

Try letting her go and not chasing her this time. Let her readjust and be deprogrammed, or whatever hold it is you have on her fade, and then let her make her own decision. Meanwhile, stop slinging mud at people who are only trying to help the poor girl and maybe, maybe, people will have a modicum of respect for you and yours.

Until then, you're all a bunch of clowns running nothing more than the religious version of the Keystone Cops.

[EricaCrowley]

I just love the way false righteousness can breed true foolishness. Erica, OoD, run along and play your make believe elsewhere. The world has enough people with delusions of religiosity in it without your rather laughable attempts.

I am far from righteous that is just not me, but reality is simply reality.

The irony of those words coming from a member of the Order is absolutely hilarious. If you and your little misfit collection really accepted reality as it was, you wouldn't be pressuring Bree into making any kind of choice that she didn't want to make. And don't kid yourselves for one second, societal pressure counts as pressure. You know Bree absolutely hates it when she feels people are upset or disapprove of her actions, so of course she'll feel pressured to do what these people that she's grown up as part of tell her to do.

Try letting her go and not chasing her this time. Let her readjust and be deprogrammed, or whatever hold it is you have on her fade, and then let her make her own decision. Meanwhile, stop slinging mud at people who are only trying to help the poor girl and maybe, maybe, people will have a modicum of respect for you and yours.

Until then, you're all a bunch of clowns running nothing more than the religious version of the Keystone Cops.

I see absolutely no reason why you would have a negative opinion of either the Hymn of One or the Order of Denderah. Based on your earlier post you seem to have a problem with religions in general. This is of course your right. No one is asking you to join or follow the teaching of the HoO or the OoD. In fact we really have very little concern what people on the outside do as long as it does not affect our rights. I can comfortably say that our belief system is one of the most understanding and accepting of others’ ideas. I will not try to claim that we are a religion which turns the other cheek. We don’t follow the teachings of Christ in that regard. We have learned through the centuries that to survive a minority group must be willing to use strength to crush one’s enemies. The Order does not hesitate to take action when threatened. That does not mean that we act in a reckless fashion. We believe that a person such as you should have the freedom to express his opinion without the threat of persecution. The Order never acts against people who do not present a true danger to the interests of the organization.

Regarding Bree, you seem to be under some misconception that she is being held against her will. Bree can do as she pleases. If she wanted to be with her former friends then she would. However she is with her mother.

Erica

[Esteed]

Gee, I'm sorry, I guess I just thought shooting people was bad. Silly me. The Order is just such a rosy organization, despite it's threats and the fact that it's agents shot someone! My, those small projectiles of lead make for such a beautiful world!

I have no problems with religion. I think a lot of it is flawed, but if believing in something helps get you through the day, who am I to judge? The catch is that you have to practice what you preach, and your organization has been anything but peaceful.

Sorry, Erica. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of your "organization" are about as loud as a gunshot.

[EricaCrowley]

Gee, I'm sorry, I guess I just thought shooting people was bad. Silly me. The Order is just such a rosy organization, despite it's threats and the fact that it's agents shot someone! My, those small projectiles of lead make for such a beautiful world!

I have no problems with religion. I think a lot of it is flawed, but if believing in something helps get you through the day, who am I to judge? The catch is that you have to practice what you preach, and your organization has been anything but peaceful.

Sorry, Erica. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of your "organization" are about as loud as a gunshot.

We are not about peace and love. You're thinking of another faith. I think we have always been very honest about the fact that if you cross us then we will take action. Sometimes the best defense is a loaded gun. Remember where our faith comes from.

Erica

[wh_pirate]

Remember where our faith comes from.
Erica

And that would be where? From the underworld?

[EricaCrowley]

Remember where our faith comes from.
Erica

And that would be where? From the underworld?

Explaining the belief system of the Order of Denderah on a message board is a little difficult but I will give it a try. We do hold a belief in the same G_D found in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. We believe that there is only one G_D and that G_D is Yahweh. We also believe that Jesus was born of a virgin by the will of G_D but we do not view him as G_D but as a product of G_D. We do believe that Jesus is immortal and overall we agree with many of the Christian views of Jesus. We believe that G_D created man through an evolutionary process and that the first man gifted by G_D with a basic intelligence based on the concept of Good and Evil was Adam. We do not believe that G_D gave him Free Will. We believe that his first wife was Lilith, an angel that was transformed into a human by G_D. Adam and Lilith mated, she was mother too many children before the relationship ended. Lilith was then freed by G_D from the Earth and once again became immortal. G_D then granted Eve basic intelligence on a level with Adam. We believe that the Archangel Lucifer then gave both Adam and Eve the gift of Free Will. Lilith, when she was human, had Free Will as did her children but Adam did not. We believe that our religion was founded by the first children of Lilith and Adam. We believe that they preserved a bloodline free of the blood of Eve. This direct line from Lilith exists today and we worship its existence. We do not worship G_D in a manner that most religions would consider traditional. Our religion is not centered on the worship of a deity but in the worship of his creations and that of his Angels.

Erica

[New voice of reason]

Well, Erica,

that is YOUR version. Maybe you just found her without calling you and put her into one of those helicopters without really asking her what she wants?

Of course, you might say, she has said that she is happy with the HoO being re-united with her mother and that she has said that in that video but that video is very unconvincing for me as far as her mental state goes. Bree does not talk for herself but answers the questions of Carl and she doesn`t talk directly to the viewers, and when she does, she sounds completly strange to me, completly different as when she is not with the HoO.

We have seen a video where Daniel, Jonas and Bree had been put under drugs and strange voices were in the backround. This one seemed to my like if the HoO was trying to do some brain-washing. So, we do know that, if I am right, they don`t hold back when it comes to this method to manipulate people.

Plus, whenever one of us tried to encourage Spencer to talk to us, even YOU tried to discourage him by threatening with certain consquences, no matter which one (losing his job or even worse things). So, your "not being able to harm a fly"has also become a little suspicious to me, sorry to say so..

Only if she would talk freely without anyone to ask her trigger-questions that might trigger answers that had been programmed into her beforehand, I could be convinced that she really was talking out of free will with Carl and that she did not get brain-washed beforehand.

Yours
New Voice of reason

[Esteed]

Okay Erica, I admit, that explanation has sparked my curiosity. I'm a bit of a myth buff (purely a hobby) and I have to ask, where does Lilith as the "Mother of Monsters" come in? Or is that part of her myth ignored?

[EricaCrowley]

Okay Erica, I admit, that explanation has sparked my curiosity. I'm a bit of a myth buff (purely a hobby) and I have to ask, where does Lilith as the "Mother of Monsters" come in? Or is that part of her myth ignored?

There are various negative references to Lilith that have been made by cultural groups throughout time. The reference you have made is rare and interesting but is not part of my religion. It is in fact a modern creation (based on historical myths) by man named Donald Tyson who in 2006 wrote Liber Lilith. There is a historical foundation for Mr. Tyson’s writing but as I have not read the book I can not comment on how accurate his work is on the subject. I have heard that he is skilled in the use of Magick so he is clearly not ignorant on the subject of the arts but sadly I am ignorant of him. If you look at a site like Wikipedia you can see just how many myths have developed around Lilith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith ) and I can not deny that the majority of belief systems outside of our own have very negative references to her. She is generally considered a “storm demon” who takes the manifestation of an owl. The O.o.D. does not use the term demon to refer to Lilith but it completely understands the reference as Lilith is a “fallen” angel who along with Lucifer rebelled against G_D. As such the use of the term demon is not incorrect but the O.o.D. views both groups as just angels while still recognizing the civil war that took place in Heaven. A war without death that G_D won and which resulted in the creation of Hell. Lilith was cast into Hell with Lucifer. Some of the negative imagery and myth is part of our belief system and we do not hold Lilith up to be a creature which represents good or evil but as more of a representation of nature. We do use the symbolism of an Owl very often as a representation of Lilith.

[Esteed]

Well, "Mother of Monsters" may be a modern term, but even as far back as Beowulf Lilith was considered the mother, or at least an ancestor, of Grendel. Considering the numerous myths that list Lilith or a Lilith-figure as the progenitor of more than a few monstrous lineages, it's likely that there is at least some kernel of truth amidst all the mythical exaggeration. If that's the case, how do you know definitively that one of these monstrous lineages didn't decide to pull the wool over everyone's eyes by inventing their own myth and using it to found a religion?

I suppose the answer would be faith. Yet faith can only carry you so far. Explore the inner circles of your religion, I think you'll find the apple is rotting within.

[EricaCrowley]

Well, Erica,

that is YOUR version. Maybe you just found her without calling you and put her into one of those helicopters without really asking her what she wants?

Of course, you might say, she has said that she is happy with the HoO being re-united with her mother and that she has said that in that video but that video is very unconvincing for me as far as her mental state goes. Bree does not talk for herself but answers the questions of Carl and she doesn`t talk directly to the viewers, and when she does, she sounds completly strange to me, completly different as when she is not with the HoO.

We have seen a video where Daniel, Jonas and Bree had been put under drugs and strange voices were in the backround. This one seemed to my like if the HoO was trying to do some brain-washing. So, we do know that, if I am right, they don`t hold back when it comes to this method to manipulate people.

Plus, whenever one of us tried to encourage Spencer to talk to us, even YOU tried to discourage him by threatening with certain consquences, no matter which one (losing his job or even worse things). So, your "not being able to harm a fly"has also become a little suspicious to me, sorry to say so..

Only if she would talk freely without anyone to ask her trigger-questions that might trigger answers that had been programmed into her beforehand, I could be convinced that she really was talking out of free will with Carl and that she did not get brain-washed beforehand.

Yours
New Voice of reason

My friend I wish we had found her without her calling us but she did in fact call us and that is how we found via GPS. I do not interfere with the HoO or their videos as I have far more important things to worry about than the HoO. Personally, I do not think that Hymn of One should be seeking to recruit new members in this fashion but I am willing to let them exercise this path as I maybe simply ignorant of modern day religious marketing. I really don’t care for marketing any religious belief like a face cream. I personally believe that if a person is meant to follow a certain belief system then they will find that system. However, I really don’t see any harm in the videos that Bree has made and they have brought many more people to the one true faith. This can only be good.

If Bree wanted to make a traditional video then she certainly could. I will assume that this is not something she wants to do.

Erica