you are a cool guy.. Now, you have the potential to become a hero. Our hero.
Yours
New Voice of reason
Why would any sane man want to be a hero to a group of people trying to destroy others religious freedoms. Will Spencer become a hero when he performs criminal medical experiments on an underage girl without her mother's consent? I wouldn't be worried about Spencer's life, I would be worried about him going to prison. Maybe he can share a cell with Jonas when he gets locked up for statutory rape.
Spencer needs to start acting like a man rather than a boy. The time has come for him to exercise some common sense.
I don't want to sound harsh but you have no understanding of reality.
I'm sorry but any organization willing to control someone's mind with drugs sounds pretty illegal to me, and they have video proof that they had her mother's consent and as Taylor said it's unclear what actually happened that night. There you go an argument for every one of your points.
you guys stop bickering... Hug a Tree and Sing!!!1!11!1
The Truth Is Out There, Trust No One
Taylor Fanclub, Caught the Wish, Saved a Husband
Believed in The Year Zero,
One of the Cloudmakers http://www.cloudmakers.org/guide/index3.shtml
Currently trying to crack the Publius Enigma
jdolorous wrote:I'm sorry but any organization willing to control someone's mind with drugs sounds pretty illegal to me, and they have video proof that they had her mother's consent and as Taylor said it's unclear what actually happened that night. There you go an argument for every one of your points.
What in the world are you talking about? Have you been drinking?
well, if a mother is using a child for something like a sacrifice, the child in my country can get an elder from the state if she wants to.
And as far as we know, we don`t know if Bree wants to become involved in the ceremony. And besides, if this does do harm to Bree, the mother has no right to do so (at least in my country) and Bree should get an elder from the state anyway.
Now, if the state is corrupted (what it seems to be), then, we cannot rely on the normal law. We can, however, rely on philosophy to build a kind of ethics for this scenario. And in Greek philosophy, there is the allowence of killing a tyran.(I hope my spelling is correct). So, to transfer it, Spencer has the allowance to act against the will of the mother even if the state does not interfere if the ceremony harms Bree against her will because both mother and state are then in the position of the tyran.
It all comes down to the question if Bree is free to choose her path or not. To me, the last video that Dan showed us made clear that Bree is NOT free to choose her path.
If Spencer`s knowledge DOES give Bree the freedom to choose her path, Spencer is a hero because he frees Bree from the tyranny of her own blood.
You are an intelligent person. Please explain where you got the idea that we plan to use "a child for something like a sacrifice"? What makes you think that the ceremony involves a sacrifice?
The problem is: We don`t know what the ceremony consists of. But there are a lot of references that it must involve her body at least up to a certain degree.
When she was talking about the ceremony, Bree has been put under a special diet. The way her DNA is constructed seems also to be important for the ceremony. And there is always a lot of talking going on about "her blood". Plus, she received special ratings of iron to "strenghten her blood".
You are right, I cannot be sure that the ceremony does involve a kind of sacrifice or any kind of harm to Bree`s body. But when the blood is talked that much about, it seems to be a hint that it plays a role in the ceremony. It might be painful for Bree; even the faked ceremony was exhausting for her.
I don`t know to what extend the ceremony includes the sacrifice of Bree, but I have the impression that it does at least to a certain degree.
Erica, do you know what the ceremony includes for Bree? (I mean, I don`t know how secret this ritual is kept. Maybe even YOU are excluded from it.. I mean, you said you have problems in controlling those in your group who favour a violent solution when it comes to Bree`s friends and spencer, so I don`t know to what extend you ARE a leader in the HoO - no offense meant...) Can you assure me really with a guarantee that it does not involve any harm done to Bree?
The problem is: We don`t know what the ceremony consists of. But there are a lot of references that it must involve her body at least up to a certain degree.
When she was talking about the ceremony, Bree has been put under a special diet. The way her DNA is constructed seems also to be important for the ceremony. And there is always a lot of talking going on about "her blood". Plus, she received special ratings of iron to "strenghten her blood".
You are right, I cannot be sure that the ceremony does involve a kind of sacrifice or any kind of harm to Bree`s body. But when theblood is talked that much about, it seems to be a hint that it plays a role in the ceremony. It might be painful for Bree; even the faked ceremony was exhausting for her.
I don`t know to what extend the ceremony includes the sacrifice of Bree, but I have the impression that it does at least to a certain degree.
Erica, do you know what the ceremony includes for Bree? (I mean, I don`t know how secret this ritual is kept. Maybe even YOU are excluded from it.. I mean, you said you have problems in controlling those in your group who favour a violent solution when it comes to Bree`s friends and spencer, so I don`t know to what extend you ARE a leader in the HoO - no offense meant...) Can you assure me really with a guarantee that it does not involve any harm done to Bree?
Yours
New Voice of reason
Voice,
I know every detail of the ceremony. It is a secret ritual but I know every secret of the OoD. My mother and grandmother both took part in this ritual and neither of them had a bad experience. I am highest ranking member of the OoD and therefore I also rule the HoO. I can assure you without giving away any secrets that no one is harmed during a "ceremony" and there is no use of any type of blood. If I were healthy I would do it myself without giving it a second thought. It is a simple ritual. Not a big deal, just a little tiring and long.
Watch this video that Gemma made before she left me. It somewhat explains the history of the ceremony. Don't get caught up in the burning Owl. The Owl is just a representation of Lilith and I think you might be surprised how many important people worship her in the United States.
well, the pictures DO say something to me but they don`t make me completely calm...
So, there seems to be a lot of sexuality involved in the ceremony (lots of the pictures hold sexual content). Furthermore, there ARE hints on a sarifice, even of a human being (the person on the altar in one of the pictures almost looked dead).
Then, in the second video, there are references to Jonas and Bree and sex and a baby that should be the result of it. This one even seemed more confusing; Jonas isn`t part of the HoO. And he has no reason to become so because YOU killed his parents, or made them leave him alone in order to protect him from YOU. Plus, if Jonas is also needed for the ceremony that should result in a child, why is he not kidnapped? And why were there some of your organisation who even said that Bree should by no means get involved with Jonas?
Is Bree robbed of her free will to get sexually involved with someone she does not want to get involved with and was already under that "spell " (which means manipulated by brain-washing)when she kissed Jonas? To force someone into sexual relationship is also forcing some kind of violence on him or her!
Is Bree being sacrificed after you have the child you want?
I am not really happy with that answer. I will, however, read the text you recommended to me, even "though my latin has become a little rusty.
Besides, it is strange that an owl is burnt. The owl is, in Greece, a traditional synonym for wisdom. It was the symbol of Athene, the Greek goddess of wisdom and war. The ancient Greeks even had a saying: "Do not take owls to Athene." for saying don`t state the obvious.
In medival age, the owl was often seen as a messenger of death because it was a bird of the night.
So, what is burnt here - death or wisdom?;-)
Yours
New Voice of reason
Last edited by New voice of reason on Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Once again Bree will not be sacrificed before, during or after the ceremony. No one ever has been or will be.
As for Jonas it wouldn't take much of a "Spell" (what are we witches??) to make someone want to sleep with Jonas. It looked to me like Bree was enjoying herself and vice versa.
Jonas might not be part of The Order but that doesn't say anything about his DNA (or bloodline). At this point he isn't needed at the ceremony. He's done his part.
Also if you don't want to read "Rosarium philosophorum sive pretiosissimum donum Dei" in Latin, tell me what language you want it in and I'll get you a translation. Although you seem smart enough to understand the Latin text.
