Aleister Crowley: relevant element or moot & dead ended?

Sam fan · Post by **Sam fan** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:31 pm

In the "Video" section thread for "I'm Here To Help", Samara nailed Spencer's reference to a character in a Kuttner book.

Kuttner is related to Crowley by one degree of separation and this seemed possibly significant, so I posted this in the aforemnetioned thread:

Sam fan wrote: Wow! Good call, Samara!

Being a sci-fi geek myself, I know that the author, Henry Kuttner, was one of the authors/fans who was in touch with H.P. Lovecraft....

Lovecraft, as you guys probably know, crafted stories about the Cthulhu mythos.

Any Lovecraft fans know it's possible to wax at length about the Cthulhu "reality", but the wiki gives a good, relatively short shot of info:
"The Mythos usually takes place in fictional New England towns and is centered on the Great Old Ones, a fearsome assortment of ancient, powerful deities who came from outer space and once ruled the Earth. " ... "Enochian" anyone?!

The Enochian thread is woven further because Lovecraft was often linked with *da da da DA!* Aleister Crowley. The link was usually ideological/professional, but a deeper link is that Lovecraft married one of Crowley's former lovers, who no doubt regaled him with tales (which Lovecraft fans think is at the base of his "History of the Necronomicon").
[...]
It may have nothing to do with actual, or main, plot of this series, but in my opinion it's great fun, anyway.
[...]
*sigh* ...well, maybe Spencer's reference was a nod to the Kuttner->Lovecraft->Crowley/Enochian link, anyway. Who knows?

Maybe the Crowley link is just coincidence -- and the Creators put Crowley's picture up on Bree's bedroom wall because it looked spooky and "occult"... but it's interesting to see it resurface with Spencer and it's got me wondering.

Also, December 15, 2006 has turned out to be a significant day in the Breeverse and a video about Crowley was posted on YouTUbe on that date: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU-Oy8Xv4Xw

If this is beating a dead horse, I apologize...

[EDIT: statement removed to avoid offending people.]

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:20 pm

You know, I'm not sure if he's relevant anymore or not. I tend to think he must be, since, as you say, there was the picture on Bree's wall and there's the quote making the the connection to the Hymn of One on their website. I hadn't really thought about one degree of separation though (and I just happen to be a big science fiction fan, too - like you and Samara, I picked up on the book connection, though I was a bit embarrassed not to have caught the Sliders thing (is that a TV show - sometimes I think I'm pretty hopeless <rueful grin>)

Either way, I seriously doubt it's coincidence!

Oh, and on a side note, I happen to be reading a book of Kuttner's short stories just now...gotta love that guy...timeless!

Anyway, I'm thinking, since this is a Crowley thing, we might get more discussion going in the Her Religion area, so I'm gonna scoot us over that-a-way...

rupaZer0 · Post by **rupaZer0** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:49 pm

I think the link to Crowley will be limited. The HoO cannot be Thelema because the Creators have already said it is not based on any single real-world religion. That doesn't mean Crowley won't become relevant again, but he's not super-important.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:38 pm

Sam fan, you've got to be on to SOMETHING! The newest video mentions another Kuttner story and character - Dark World, so either the connection is through Kuttner or TO Kuttner, I dunno!

What other things can we posit here?

Sam fan · Post by **Sam fan** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:32 pm

chershaytoute wrote:You know, I'm not sure if he's relevant anymore or not. I tend to think he must be, since, as you say, there was the picture on Bree's wall and there's the quote making the the connection to the Hymn of One on their website. I hadn't really thought about one degree of separation though (and I just happen to be a big science fiction fan, too - like you and Samara, I picked up on the book connection, though I was a bit embarrassed not to have caught the Sliders thing (is that a TV show - sometimes I think I'm pretty hopeless <rueful grin>)

Either way, I seriously doubt it's coincidence!

Oh, and on a side note, I happen to be reading a book of Kuttner's short stories just now...gotta love that guy...timeless!

Anyway, I'm thinking, since this is a Crowley thing, we might get more discussion going in the Her Religion area, so I'm gonna scoot us over that-a-way...

Good idea (moving that) ~ thanks!

Because of the Enochian connection (and that having been a part of the ceremony) I'm thinking it might still be relevant.

That an interesting coincidence that you happen to be reading one of Kuttner's books! (Although a true metaphysician would say that there are NO coincidences, right?

)

rupaZer0 wrote:I think the link to Crowley will be limited. The HoO cannot be Thelema because the Creators have already said it is not based on any single real-world religion. That doesn't mean Crowley won't become relevant again, but he's not super-important.

That's a good point abuot teh Thelema, for sure... I just think that there is more to Crowley than strictly Thelema ~ as mentioned, the Enochian might link with the "alien race" and the alien race ties in with Cthulhu/Lovecraft->Kuttner-. Spencer video. maybe <shrug>

Sam fan · Post by **Sam fan** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:41 pm

chershaytoute wrote:Sam fan, you've got to be on to SOMETHING! The newest video mentions another Kuttner story and character - Dark World, so either the connection is through Kuttner or TO Kuttner, I dunno!

What other things can we posit here?

Thank you for sparking that thread of convo, Diane ~ you're awesome.

...
...what gleams out like neon from the Dark World plot is that ine of the main characters (Ganleon) is the head of a group of mutated who live in Dark World (Bree is a mutant, right?)... and once he goes to Earth and then back to D.W. he has two distinct personalities -- wasn't there some speculation about Bree having an alter ego (Cassie perhaps?), or maybe the brainwashed Bree and the Order-resisting Bree couldbe seen as two distinct personalities.

How that would tie in with the current plot line though? Hmmmm

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:56 pm

I can hardly wait to see what the next Kuttner reference is - and I am SURE there's going to be one. I have a strong hunch Spencer's going to make one.

I wonder, too, where Orson Scott Card and Vonegut come in...?