Some info about Thelema, Masonry, and a few new "suspec

[Satyr]

I know that I sound like everyone else when I say the blog is fiction, but if there's any implied connection between LG15 and the OTO, it's gonna be BS. There's some wierd ass stuff in the order, I will say that, but if they're implying we sacrifice virgins on Crowleymas, that's a bit much. Mostly we just get drunk.

Heh. Sad, in a way, but all too true.

[Satyr]

In order to perform duties as a priestess in the Gnostic Mass, whether public or private, in an official O.T.O. ceremony, one must be an initiate in good standing of the O.T.O., of at least 3° (unless one has permission of the presiding Bishop or Primate). In order to go to a private OTO ceremony, one must be at least 0° in the order. In order to be at least 0°, one must be 18.

To be fair, it should be noted that these requirements are a very late development - post 1990, at the earliest - and even then is only true for one particular manifestation of the OTO. Prior to Bill Breeze's crack down on the EGC, almost anyone could serve as Priestess, regardless of whether they enjoyed some formal standing or recognition in the Caliphate OTO.

[tinkerbellmoon]

To be fair, it should be noted that these requirements are a very late development - post 1990, at the earliest - and even then is only true for one particular manifestation of the OTO. Prior to Bill Breeze's crack down on the EGC, almost anyone could serve as Priestess, regardless of whether they enjoyed some formal standing or recognition in the Caliphate OTO.

Reading that name just popped out at me could Bree's name be a derivative of Bill Breeze's name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Breeze

Would his beliefs be linked to which form of religion her family is practicing?

[sunflowernik]

Has the Rosicruacian Order been brought up before?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian

I came across the while I was searching for the lepton link. That was one of the tags in her A Change in my Life video.

A bit off topic as it the Myspace Cassie is probably fake, but her image has "may the roses bloom" written faintly on it. That's a rosicrucian greeting. If the myspace is a fakester, they could have come to the same conclusions as you. But you could be onto something.

[PansGirl]

Hey there....I had a strange run in via Google just now that I wanted to share. I have heard the Celtic goddess Brighid referred to as "Bree" so I wondered if there were any Crowley/Thelema connection to Her....keyed "Brigid Crowley" in Google and, ...well, the 9th entry was titled "Integronlike Structures in Campylobacter spp. of Human and Animal..." I know this is probably just a bizarre coincidence, but sheesh!

[orvetti]

Has the Rosicruacian Order been brought up before?

I came across the while I was searching for the lepton link. That was one of the tags in her A Change in my Life video.

I was involved with the Rosicrucians for a while. Modern-day Rosicrucianism is just silliness and a scam. There's no there there -- just a way to sell pamphlets about something called vibroturgy for an absurd price.

In "Annie Hall," Woody Allen's character says of Rosicrucianism that he can't get behind any religion that advertises in the back of "Popular Mechanics" magazine.

[wisdom cube]

This is kind of off topic but I've heard many times that some, and probably barely any anymore, Freemasons do not allow Roman Catholics into the group.

[westlands]

Crowley's most famous words are, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." That is pure "youtube", or whatever term you want to use to describe the direction of entertainment, communication, and community. Do what you will; exert your individual creative power. That's exactly what people are doing and what this website is apparently going to be about.

That may not have anything to do with the unfolding story of Bree, but it shows another level of communication with the audience.

[morgangw]

Plenty of my British Traditional Wicca (BTW) friends have Crowley books, posters, etc. After all, Gerald Gardner studied under Uncle Al.

[Xen]

Plenty of my British Traditional Wicca (BTW) friends have Crowley books, posters, etc. After all, Gerald Gardner studied under Uncle Al.

There are people (see Disinformation Company's Book of Lies) who believe that Crowley actually created most of the text of early Wicca and that Gerald, that naughty S&M monkey, thought it was a hilarious little game.

So there's that.

[William]

This is kind of off topic but I've heard many times that some, and probably barely any anymore, Freemasons do not allow Roman Catholics into the group.

Many Roman Catholics do not join the craft under fear of excommunication, but the lodge has NEVER prohibited Roman Catholics as members.

[Jacktwan]

Proof good sir.

Then again I suppose it is up to the lodge to decide, but it is generally understood that Catholics are not welcome.

[cymatic]

Proof good sir.

Then again I suppose it is up to the lodge to decide, but it is generally understood that Catholics are not welcome.

It seems that Freemasons welcome Catholics, but the Roman Catholic church is not so welcoming of Freemasons.

a couple of fun links from google:

http://www.answers.com/topic/catholicis ... reemasonry

http://www.grandlodge-england.org/mason ... ligion.htm

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/roman_cat ... emason.htm


and of course the obvious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicis ... reemasonry

Which specifically states:

Freemasonry's position

There has never been Masonic prohibition against Catholics joining the fraternity. Many Freemasons are Catholics.

If you know better, perhaps you should update the Wiki article!



Edit: the source for the specific part of the Wiki article I cited is
S. Brent Morris, The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freemasonry, Alpha/Penguin Books, ISBN 1-59257-490-4, p. 207

I searched for a bit trying to find any source which would support the idea that Freemasons do not allow Roman Catholics as members and could not find any (I skipped the obviously kooky conspiracy sites, trying to focus on what Masons themselves have to say). In fact most of the sites I found seem eager to stress the contrary. E.g.: "The prime qualification for admission into Freemasonry has always been a belief in God. How that belief is expressed is entirely up to the individual. Four Grand Masters of English Freemasonry have been Roman Catholics. There are many Roman Catholic Freemasons." (from here: http://www.grandlodge-england.org/mason ... ligion.htm)

Most of the statements regarding the freedom of Catholics to join state something about there being no Grand Lodges which prohibit Catholics from joining. E.g., "There is no prohibition in any Grand Lodge jurisdiction against Catholics being made Masons." (from this site: http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Masonry/Misc/FAQ.html) There seems to be a bit of sensitivity on this issue, it's clear that historically some Catholics have been denied entry into particular Lodges (the local units of Masonry, which are "warranted" by a Grand Lodge). Not necessarily as a matter of official policy but as an understanding among Lodge members who have the power to vote in or deny new members. Given the admission structure (the vote to allow a new member must be unanimous in many locations), local prejudices will have enormous impact in any particular Lodge's membership. It's not surprising to hear that in the US South where protestants have held many strange beliefs about Catholics, these prejudices would be reflected in the de facto membership policies of Masonic Lodges there. I'd not be surprised to find the same is true regarding other religious or ethnic minorities in some places and times.

To wit: "However, it is fair to state that Masons, as humans, are prone to the kinds of prejudices that all humans may succumb to. Since the vote to admit a candidate is anonymous and must be unanimous, one man's unspoken prejudice is sufficient to deny entry to a man (except, of course, in those jurisdictions which require more than one 'no' vote to deny entrance, but you get the idea). Prejudice is inexcusable and irreconcilable with Masonry, but then, it is also irreconcilable with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, and there are certainly Christians, Jews, and Muslims who harbor prejudices." (again from http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Masonry/Misc/FAQ.html)

[Kasdeja]

I wouldn't know about the Mason side, but definitely not an encouraged group within the Roman Catholic community because of 'deism'.

[Jacktwan]

I Didn't mean to claim I know for sure, I just know of Masons who think that way.

Among other things I have noticed, some lodges will not let you become a member if you are not a member of local church. It promotes community or some drivel.

I also know others who prefer you not be a member of a church (keyword "prefer").

And still further my grandfather's lodge would most definitely not allow catholics (horrible, I know).

So, w/o a doubt it does depend on what lodge you are speaking of.

This also only applies to modern Masons, as of now most I have spoken with are glorified Mason Apologists.

As for Wikipedia......I seriously doubt that you will find the Higher Masonic doctrine there, believe me, it is far the end all be all for the masons.