0070 Learning Egyptian [11/9/06]

[Lurker]

This is one of the things I've been trying to point out.. people are saying they always knew it wasn't religion even never mind Thelema. crap. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A RELIGION...

I've been trying to avoid saying anything up to now because I thought it was kind of obvious what's going on here and that everybody else would think so too after a day or so, but some of you still seem to be hung up on the idea that we've got a complete backtrack going on here. I don't think that's the case.

Clearly Bree believes she's part of a religion. Considering her book learning, it's fair to say she knows what a religion is (and wasn't it established a while ago that she believes “…in a certain person… in a certain set of rules… and not Jesus Christ"?) and would find it odd that her religion had no religious overtones if it didn't?

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get to is that it's very, very likely that Bree and her parents are part of a religion (possibly Thelema), that the Order of Denderah is a "branch" of that religion (which only a select few would get to be part of; Bree's already stated that her parents aren't part of the Order of Denderah), and that it is this select few who are in the "secret society" that isn't really a religion. In other words, the Order of Denderah here could be a secret society disguising itself as a branch of Thelema. Or, it could go even further than that, and The Order could be a secret society disguising itself as a branch of the Order of Denderah, which could be a branch of Thelema (think Christianity --> Catholicism --> Opus Dei).

I think it's a harsh misinterpretation of this video from Gemma to conclude that it suddenly means there was never any religious stuff at work here. It's possible that the Enochian Bree learned was because her religion is Thelema, but that she was just told to learn that by the Deacons so that Bree would think what she was preparing for is relevant to her religion. This revelation about Egyptian being their true concern would just mean that they were trying to get Bree to think that she was doing something related to her religion.

Oh, and a couple of other things, guys: "Denderah" is the name of a town in Egypt. Don't forget that. Also, Aleister Crowley said that history is broken down into a series of aeons (or eons), and he named them after Isis, Osiris, and Horus. And there's the mention of Hathor. It's not like Egyptian references suddenly came out of nowhere in this story. It's not even like Thelema itself doesn't have any connections to Egypt (Crowley wrote the Book of the Law in Egypt, and its cosmology is based on ancient Egyptian cosmology). Have a little faith, people, and look for something that makes it work. In my opinion, what I've suggested above would resolve any possible discrepancies this most recent video created. Look a little harder for glue before accepting that there isn't any.

I'm not saying that I think all of the plot threads that we've seen are going to get resolved. In fact, I bet most of them won't be. I'm one of those people who thinks the Creators have been writing this thing while flying by the seat of their pants, just making it up as they go along. But, when a possible explanation for some things is as obvious as this one is, I don't see why everyone's ready to write them off.

[kristy2520]

I have pretty much been thinking exactly what Lurker said, and posted my thoughts here, although they were quickly looked over because I only wrote a small paragraph. Just because Bree has called it a religion does not mean that the Creators are being inconsistent by having Gemma say it's not. It gets sort of frustrating that now all people seem to do on this forums is complain about the videos and assume the Creators are doing things all wrong. I understand that it is an interactive thing, that comments are important in potentially shaping how the story goes, but you also must remember that there have been signs for a long time that this isn't really a religion, like when Daniel calls it a cult. It isn't something that came out of nowhere. And when it works itself out, I hope that everyone on here doesn't assume it's because they threatened to never watch again if it doesn't.

[trunbuns]

watch 'a change in my life'

Bree: "the ceremonys a very big deal IN MY RELIGION"

this therefore would insinuate that it's a religous ceremony no?

'the order' are in charge of the ceremony, this we know, as they're the ones training bree, and they're the ones pissed now thats shes not participating.

fast forward to 'learning egyptian'

Gemma: "It's like a secret society; it's not a religion after all"
'
Okay so thats not contradictory? that's not backtracking?

seriously watch 'a change in my life and tell me this wasn't a religous ceremony. I appreciate that thelema was never directly mentioned but the idea that the ceromony and order were not initially religous is preposterous and delusional.

and as for the 'opus die' reference' it might be a secret society but its a religous secret society.

'its not a religion after all' is the bit that get's more than the rest, it almost sounds like it's the creators saying 'yeh we started with religon but now....'

edited to avoid double posting

[spaciegirlreturn]

I think what they're trying to say is that Bree may have been told that it's a religion or led to believe that, but that doesn't mean that it is...or that this group is assosciated with Thelema (or whatever "religion" she is a part of) but is not, in and of itself, an actual religion.

[trunbuns]

saying what i've said i do feel that lurkers post is by far the best post i've read arguing the point. that is the only possible explanation that wouldn't be a complete copout, and very well put across as well.

One of the main things that got to me was people flat-out denying that it was ever suggested that the ceremony was religious, or that it was linked to Thelema. It was, simple as that. But the Idea of a subset of a religion, a group or 'order', related to Thelema or whatever religion they originally had in mind, would be a lot easier to swallow.

To be honest I just feel that such a major point in the story was put across really lazily. this could have been explained in such a better manner than 'it turns out it wasn't a religion after all'. For instance why not have had Bree uncover this herself over a period of time rather than have someone smugly reveal it in such a flippant manner?

[missviolet]

I'm with Lurker.

But I also think that it's entirely possible that Gemma, who was in the commune and left, could possibly be trying to "dumb things down" a bit to explain, too. Like explaining that the Order isn't a religion, per se, but isn't a religion itself. Explaining the nuances of that would take a whole lot longer than a one minute video, y'know?

[robtomorrow]

The Order of Denderah, or The Order for short, is a secret society of Egyptologists from the University of Edinburgh where Brees mother studied, they formed a secret society because they have found a new archeological site in Egypt, where an important hieroglyph is located, that will explain some mysteries concerning King Tut, and they wanted to keep it a secret. They recognized in Bree via the Home Schooling Aggregate which they were monitoring a protégé. The injections were immunizations because they planned to take Bree to Egypt to visit the archeological site. The ceremony was a hazing event to induct Bree into the society. Lucy is one of the Egyptologists which is why she knew so much about the Zodiac of Denderah. The Deacons is a cryptic name for members of the society of Egyptologists, they adopted the name because they meet in secret at the Deacons House Café in Edinburgh. Thelema was a ruse to lure Bree into taking a interest in Egyptian mythology. The maps on Lucy’s computer are places where other protégés live that they plan to take on their field trip to Egypt. One of which happens to be an Inuit Eskimo.

That's the best I could do to make all the pieces fit. LOL

[omegawoman]

The Order of Denderah, or The Order for short, is a secret society of Egyptologists from the University of Edinburgh where Brees mother studied, they formed a secret society because they have found a new archeological site in Egypt, where an important hieroglyph is located, that will explain some mysteries concerning King Tut, and they wanted to keep it a secret. They recognized in Bree via the Home Schooling Aggregate which they were monitoring a protégé. The injections were immunizations because they planned to take Bree to Egypt to visit the archeological site. The ceremony was a hazing event to induct Bree into the society. Lucy is one of the Egyptologists which is why she new so much about the Zodiac of Denderah. The Deacons is a cryptic name for members of the society of Egyptologists, they adopted the name because they meet in secret at the Deacons House Café in Edinburgh. Thelema was a ruse to lure Bree into taking a interest in Egyptian mythology. The maps on Lucy’s computer are places where other protégés live that they plan to take on their field trip to Egypt. One of which happens to be an Inuit Eskimo.

That's the best I could do to make all the pieces fit. LOL

Actually, the injections to leave the country may not be a bad theory. Gemma said the other family disappeared.

[Ziola]

The Order of Denderah, or The Order for short, is a secret society of Egyptologists from the University of Edinburgh where Brees mother studied, they formed a secret society because they have found a new archeological site in Egypt, where an important hieroglyph is located, that will explain some mysteries concerning King Tut, and they wanted to keep it a secret. They recognized in Bree via the Home Schooling Aggregate which they were monitoring a protégé. The injections were immunizations because they planned to take Bree to Egypt to visit the archeological site. The ceremony was a hazing event to induct Bree into the society. Lucy is one of the Egyptologists which is why she new so much about the Zodiac of Denderah. The Deacons is a cryptic name for members of the society of Egyptologists, they adopted the name because they meet in secret at the Deacons House Café in Edinburgh. Thelema was a ruse to lure Bree into taking a interest in Egyptian mythology. The maps on Lucy’s computer are places where other protégés live that they plan to take on their field trip to Egypt. One of which happens to be an Inuit Eskimo.

That's the best I could do to make all the pieces fit. LOL

You should totally write mystery novels...

[NikkiBowerReport]

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get to is that it's very, very likely that Bree and her parents are part of a religion (possibly Thelema), that the Order of Denderah is a "branch" of that religion (which only a select few would get to be part of; Bree's already stated that her parents aren't part of the Order of Denderah), and that it is this select few who are in the "secret society" that isn't really a religion. In other words, the Order of Denderah here could be a secret society disguising itself as a branch of Thelema. Or, it could go even further than that, and The Order could be a secret society disguising itself as a branch of the Order of Denderah, which could be a branch of Thelema (think Christianity --> Catholicism --> Opus Dei).

Lurker - thank you for this post. I think the above makes the most sense. Bree and her family obviously have a religous faith/belief in something connected to Thelema (evidenced by Crowley, Enochian, etc.). On the other hand, the darker things we've learned about - the Ceremony, shots, etc. seem to an aspect of The Order - maybe an Opus Dei type branch like Lurker said above.

[Lurker]

saying what i've said i do feel that lurkers post is by far the best post i've read arguing the point. that is the only possible explanation that wouldn't be a complete copout, and very well put across as well.

Thank you. I'm glad you feel like it's a possible explanation. You seemed to be one of the members most upset by this development in the storyline, so if it would work to you, maybe it will fix things for everybody who felt like this was a bad move.

One of the main things that got to me was people flat-out denying that it was ever suggested that the ceremony was religious, or that it was linked to Thelema.

Yeah, I can understand finding that ridiculus. Bree, at the very least, was convinced that this thing was related to her religion. It was definitely always implied that the ceremony was something important to whatever religion she is part of. It's certainly one thing to acknowledge that Bree was tricked and another to say they never implied that this was a religious ceremony.

To be honest I just feel that such a major point in the story was put across really lazily. this could have been explained in such a better manner than 'it turns out it wasn't a religion after all'. For instance why not have had Bree uncover this herself over a period of time rather than have someone smugly reveal it in such a flippant manner?

I don't think Jackie intends to cause Gemma to come off in a smug manner. I think she's just not used to trying to pull off that accent (do we know if it's her real accent or not yet? I doubt it somehow), so she ends up looking and sounding goofy or just plain awkward a lot of times. No offense to the actress or character, mind you. I find her rather likable.

Anyway, I think they chose to reveal it in a "bam - in your face" way like this because a lot of people were losing interest over the last week before the "On the Run" video came along. After it brought some life back into things, they needed another big development to follow on its heels.

Lurker - thank you for this post. I think the above makes the most sense. Bree and her family obviously have a religous faith/belief in something connected to Thelema (evidenced by Crowley, Enochian, etc.). On the other hand, the darker things we've learned about - the Ceremony, shots, etc. seem to an aspect of The Order - maybe an Opus Dei type branch like Lurker said above.

You're welcome, Nikki. Glad to be of service.

[chanda]

The Order of Denderah, or The Order for short, is a secret society of Egyptologists from the University of Edinburgh where Brees mother studied, they formed a secret society because they have found a new archeological site in Egypt, where an important hieroglyph is located, that will explain some mysteries concerning King Tut, and they wanted to keep it a secret. They recognized in Bree via the Home Schooling Aggregate which they were monitoring a protégé. The injections were immunizations because they planned to take Bree to Egypt to visit the archeological site. The ceremony was a hazing event to induct Bree into the society. Lucy is one of the Egyptologists which is why she knew so much about the Zodiac of Denderah. The Deacons is a cryptic name for members of the society of Egyptologists, they adopted the name because they meet in secret at the Deacons House Café in Edinburgh. Thelema was a ruse to lure Bree into taking a interest in Egyptian mythology. The maps on Lucy’s computer are places where other protégés live that they plan to take on their field trip to Egypt. One of which happens to be an Inuit Eskimo.

That's the best I could do to make all the pieces fit. LOL

Rob! This is awesome! I think it's great.

[house]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel like it's time for a new Daniel/Bree video. Wonder what they've been up to?

[omegawoman]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel like it's time for a new Daniel/Bree video. Wonder what they've been up to?

Last I heard, they got a room.

[house]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel like it's time for a new Daniel/Bree video. Wonder what they've been up to?

Last I heard, they got a room.

I guess we could fan wank and speculate about the title of the next video.

"Daniel Does...Bree"? Anyone?
"Daniel Smacks His P-Monkey"