Watchers are good; Jonas is OpAphid; Gemma is the Order

[briska06]

OpAphid stands for Operation APHID - there are chicks in the videos, but it's not confirmed that OpAphid is male, female, or a group of people.

[Lurker]

Going back to some people's previous ideas about the Order wanting Bree to procreate for some reason, what if their plan is to put her together with Jonas? Maybe he's equally special to them for some reason. We already know that they want specifically Bree for something that they at least believe is important. From what's been implied, not just anyone would work.

So maybe they thought that putting Jonas himself out there would allow them to get Bree into a situation where she might willingly do what they want without even realizing that she's doing what they want? This could explain why they stole the money and haven't done anything else. Once Bree and Daniel's money was gone, and then Jonas offered her somewhere to stay, she might think "Oh, that cute guy is offering me a place to stay and I have no money anyway -- come on, Daniel, let's go." And then Daniel will figure everything out and kick Jonas' ass.

Of course, this is assuming that Jonas is a bad guy, which is seeming more and more like a good possibility. He wants Bree's trust a little too bad.

Edit: By the way, I'm starting to not like him again. He's getting way more attention than even Daniel. And Daniel's the best.

Isn't OpAphid a chick?

There's a woman in those videos, but nothing to indicate that she is OpAphid (which some people think might be the Order itself). If anything, she was probably meant to be Cassie (looking at the original videos).

[peppermint_125]

Watchers are good.
1. Gemma doesn't say they're the Order in "A Watcher." She says that's a possibility OR that "a modern version of them [Knights of the Round Table]." The "modern version" thing is rushed in the video, as if she wants you to miss it, and I didn't notice it until I read the transcript.
2. Presumably, they knew where Bree and Daniel were for days. Yet they did nothing. They're "watchers," and not "taker-awayers." They didn't take them when they had the chance. I assume that's not what they want to do, then.

Jonas is OpAphid
1. I don't buy OpAphid is the Order or that they're Watchers. I can't imagine those characters sitting around editing videos. What purpose?
2. Jonas has editing equipment and lots of free time. Has the technical ability to make the videos.
3. Jonas has the motivation. He wants company. He's obsessed. He doesn't need the money, but he wants them to run out of money so they'll stay with him.
4. He, as OpAphid, would be using the Watcher symbol in the video to mislead us and possibly scare people into thinking they need to leave the hotel.

Gemma is the Order
1. This is the weakest of my guesses.
2. Gemma would be trying to convince Bree and Daniel that Watchers are bad. I think it's impossible for Gemma to have made out the Watcher symbol on the hand from that one video.
3. She certainly has the background that would make it possible.
4. Problem: But then why wouldn't she want Bree to stay with Jonas? That makes this possibility problemmatic.

I sort of agree I really don't know if Jonas is from Op Aphid but he is someone I really don't trust, he is too supportive to Bree and offers his help. I also believe the watchers are ment no harm but I've been questioning why would Bree (and maybe Gemma) want to avoid them because it looks like they are. I don't think Gemma is the Order but I do agree she is not telling us something or that she is lying. Great thinking by the way!

[Nieriel.Manwathiel]

sorry, but that was a pretty poor theory. Our beloved Oppy threatens those who say Bree should leave the Order. And just because they didn't do anything YET, does that mean they NEVER will?

What if they are shepherds, escorting Bree to the slaughterhouse? They always make sure to pop up and Bree getting scared and moving somewhere else.


I say Jonas is an opritive of the Order (btw, hasn't it already been established that OpAphid = Order? like, a branch of the Order?) who will do something to Bree. (Okay, get your minds outta the gutters folks LOL maybe try to decieve her into thinking Daniel's bad or sumthin)


I'd say with the developments with Oppy, that Gemma is more likely to be Tachyon, especially the line Tachy underlined about not discounting small blurs as they might be words or SYMBOLS.

[kellylen]

Something about Gemma makes her seem weird and not able to be trusted, but also at this point we don't know who can be trusted and who can't.

I do like the theory about Gemma being the order though. That would DEF add an interesting twist to the plotline.

[EliCash]

Sorry it took me so long to get back and reply... Here are my thoughts to what you all said...

1. Watchers are good.

Maybe they ransacked the room to look for any type of device planted by those that would like to hurt Bree...

I don't buy that "good" Watchers were responsible for the break-in and did so for "good" reasons. At least I THINK that's what you're hinting at. If that was the case, they wouldn't have taken the money. I don't think Watchers were responsible for the break-in at all. Nor do I think it was the Order.

The Order has no reason to take her money. The only CONCEIVABLE reason is to force her to have to leave the hotel, but why would they want to do that? Wouldn't they want to keep her at a place where they knew where she was (and if they were the ones who broke in, obviously they'd know where she was).

So no, I don't buy that the Order or Watchers broke into her room. They'd want to keep her where she was.

And just because they didn't do anything YET, does that mean they NEVER will?

I never said that. There's no "proof" of anything so we have to base this on what sounds most reasonable. So here's what we have to ask ourselves:
- What does the Order want? Do they want to take Bree away? Do they want to keep her going through with the ceremony, but do so making a decision independently of pressure? Do they want to kill her?
- If they want to take her away, they could have, if those Watchers are part of the Order. If they want to kill her, they could have, if those Watchers are part of the Order. And if they want her to make the decision on her own, then maybe there's an "out." But I think that's unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.

Of course, there's another out that somebody came up with:

Going back to some people's previous ideas about the Order wanting Bree to procreate for some reason, what if their plan is to put her together with Jonas?

This, I suppose, is a possibility. Still, I'm leaning towards the Watchers being good.

2. Jonas is OpAphid.

I think that the "why would anyone bother doing this if they're a huge organization?" is more so a suspension of belief than anything else.

briska06, it's more than that. It's the quality of the production, too. Different characters have different levels of editing skills. Jonas and OpAphid are at a completely different level than, say, Bree and Gemma. I don't have too much of a problem believing the Order would use YouTube. It's the idea that theyd be producing THOSE videos that I find odd.

As to the rest of your argument, I think you make some solid points. Still, I'm not sold.

I'd say with the developments with Oppy, that Gemma is more likely to be Tachyon, especially the line Tachy underlined about not discounting small blurs as they might be words or SYMBOLS.

That's particularly interesting.

3. Gemma is the Order.

And she might not want her to trust jonas because she doesn't know where he is and if bree goes there, she will be safe?

Possibly. I'm not sure, though. Again, I think this is the weakest of my guesses. The most likely of the three, I think, is that Watchers are good.

---------------------
Final thoughts
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The most important of the three is the first, I think (that the Watchers are good). Does anybody have any reason to believe that they aren't good? The only thing so far anybody has suggested to counter my guess that they're good is that just b/c they haven't done anything bad doesn't mean they aren't bad.

Well I never made the argument that it did.

Instead, I'm arguing that it's wrong that everybody is assuming they're bad when there is a lack of evidence to suggest that's the case. And considering they haven't done anything (to my knowledge) to suggest that they're bad -- EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD TONS OF OPPORTUNITIES -- they should get the benefit of the doublt far more so than somebody like Gemma. I mean, Gemma never had the chance that the Watchers did to do harm. The Watchers, however, knew where she was for days and simply watched over them.

So please, suggest stuff that makes it less likely the Watchers are good. I'm open to it. For example, one might wonder why the Watchers would be at the ceremony if they're good. That would have been a great reply.

My reply would be:

1. We're not sure that's the case. That "Watcher" could have been mistaken as a Deacon.
2. Maybe they were already watching over Bree/Daniel.
3. Maybe they watch over the Order and are rivals, somehow.

So while I can argue my way out of it, it certainly lessens the likelyhood that the Watchers are good. Nevertheless, they've intentionally decided not to do harm when they had tons of opportunity that I still am leaning towards them being good.

[watchingall]

I think... well im suspicious about the watchers being good. I'd just like to clear my mind a little about thinking they are absolute evil.

And what is with Jonas saying how he never trusted anyone, then saying Bree should trust HIM, someone he's never met and is just recently around?

Sorry Jonas, youre a cutie, but I dont trust you.

[nobackspacebutton]

I think... well im suspicious about the watchers being good. I'd just like to clear my mind a little about thinking they are absolute evil.

And what is with Jonas saying how he never trusted anyone, then saying Bree should trust HIM, someone he's never met and is just recently around?

Sorry Jonas, youre a cutie, but I dont trust you.

Yeah, I'm starting to get a bad vibe from Jonas considering he has Acknowleged their Position and Helped to Initiate A Dialog.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

I think... well im suspicious about the watchers being good. I'd just like to clear my mind a little about thinking they are absolute evil.

And what is with Jonas saying how he never trusted anyone, then saying Bree should trust HIM, someone he's never met and is just recently around?

Sorry Jonas, youre a cutie, but I dont trust you.

Yeah, I'm starting to get a bad vibe from Jonas considering he has Acknowleged their Position and Helped to Initiate A Dialog.

He has also Analyzed and offered to Protect Bree.. who knows what he might do next? (cough. Hinder. cough.)

[EliCash]

My revised guesses, after more thought. This time, 3 is far more interesting than 1, I think.

Particularly my find in 3, subsection 2.

1. Watchers may or may not be good.
---> I'm growing more uncertain of this, but I'm glad I got this out there anyway. There is a very good shot of it, and I think it's a good thing to think about.
---> It still can be the case that OpAphid (as the Order, though) is attempting to scare people away from Watchers by using the symbol. In addition, it can be that Watchers want to protect her as well as Bree and Daniel.
---> It can also be the case that the Watchers are with the Order, but don't interfere because they still hope for Bree to go through with the ceremony. In this case, their best bet is Daniel leaving, since he's the influence on her that pushed her away from the "religion."

2. OpAphid is part of the Order, but I might have been part right.
---> I hadn't done the proper research on OpAphid. However, Jonas may still be somebody who takes orders from OpAphid and could be still be responsible for breaking into the hotel. So this isn't really a complete reversal.

3. Gemma is confusing.
---> Tied to OpAphid: What was she doing corresponding with OpAphid (per Tachyon's list)?
---> Tied to Brother: She used to sit in front of a map of the Flatiron Building, supposedly (in New York). Well, that building is less than ten miles away from the zip code 10033. That, of course, is the YouTube account for Brother. Coincidence?
---> Others have mentioned another secretive person who also went by a number: 007. The Bond character, of course, is part of the British Secret Intelligence Service.
---> Did Brother contact Gemma and insist that she send messages to OpAphid? This could be why she is now so scared now, although I doubt the relationship would continue. It could also suggest why she was sitting in front of a city on another continent that just happens to be mere miles from the zip code that makes up Brother's YouTube identity.
---> Given this, Gemma's fear of Watchers is one thing that led me to revise my opinion that Watchers are good. I now trust Gemma more, although I would guess she doesn't really know anything about the OpAphid/Tachyon stuff.
---> Also, while OpAphid wants Daniel to leave Bree, Gemma wants them to stay together. At the same time, since she knows OpAphid, she should be pushing harder.

Extra notes:
---> On October 19th, Gemma claimed to have just discovered YouTube. The video that alerted us about the first drop occurred October 28th. So it was incredibly quickly that Gemma started corresponding with OpAphid on YouTube. Somebody got to her fast.

---> I still have a lot of catching up to do on the OpAphid/Tachyon stuff, but I'm making progress reading back through old forum posts. It seems lots of people spend time on that stuff, but I'd like to see more talk about how it relates to the main storyline.

---> What is Bree's tie to Tachyon? Tachyon sent the belated birthday card, I assume, to Bree. (I missed out on these conversations, so if many already believed that, sorry, but I have no idea if that's been said.) I mean, the card has a P Monkey on it! There's a lot more, too. Probably too much to mention. I'm starting to be convinced Tachyon knew Bree when she moved to CA and that Tachyon knew Gemma before that (and got her dog which Bree loved so much). That, of course, would make Tachyon the girl in "They disappeared."

---> If Bree knew about Tachyon, though, she'd know about OpAphid. However, she certainly doesn't appear to know that at all.

[nobackspacebutton]

3. Gemma is confusing.
---> Tied to OpAphid: What was she doing corresponding with OpAphid (per Tachyon's list)?
---> Tied to Brother: She used to sit in front of a map of the Flatiron Building, supposedly (in New York). Well, that building is less than ten miles away from the zip code 10033. That, of course, is the YouTube account for Brother. Coincidence?
---> Others have mentioned another secretive person who also went by a number: 007. The Bond character, of course, is part of the British Secret Intelligence Service.
---> Did Brother contact Gemma and insist that she send messages to OpAphid? This could be why she is now so scared now, although I doubt the relationship would continue. It could also suggest why she was sitting in front of a city on another continent that just happens to be mere miles from the zip code that makes up Brother's YouTube identity.
---> Given this, Gemma's fear of Watchers is one thing that led me to revise my opinion that Watchers are good. I now trust Gemma more, although I would guess she doesn't really know anything about the OpAphid/Tachyon stuff.
---> Also, while OpAphid wants Daniel to leave Bree, Gemma wants them to stay together. At the same time, since she knows OpAphid, she should be pushing harder.

Extra notes:
---> On October 19th, Gemma claimed to have just discovered YouTube. The video that alerted us about the first drop occurred October 28th. So it was incredibly quickly that Gemma started corresponding with OpAphid on YouTube. Somebody got to her fast.

---> I still have a lot of catching up to do on the OpAphid/Tachyon stuff, but I'm making progress reading back through old forum posts. It seems lots of people spend time on that stuff, but I'd like to see more talk about how it relates to the main storyline.

---> What is Bree's tie to Tachyon? Tachyon sent the belated birthday card, I assume, to Bree. (I missed out on these conversations, so if many already believed that, sorry, but I have no idea if that's been said.) I mean, the card has a P Monkey on it! There's a lot more, too. Probably too much to mention. I'm starting to be convinced Tachyon knew Bree when she moved to CA and that Tachyon knew Gemma before that (and got her dog which Bree loved so much). That, of course, would make Tachyon the girl in "They disappeared."

---> If Bree knew about Tachyon, though, she'd know about OpAphid. However, she certainly doesn't appear to know that at all.

All of that is very interesting. You've definately put together something good here linking Gemma to OpAphid. This would definately explain why Gemma kept telling Bree not to trust Jonas and didn't provide any reasons why. This would also make sense to why she is so paranoid lately.