On the Jumping of Sharks--What LG15 is Doing Wrong

[lesbrent]

I did not find the derogatory devious smite of rancor cove amusing because well, it was rancorous in itself.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

As a writer, I could spend the next hour trying to articulate my thoughts in a sophisticated and civilized manner. However, I have to apply to college by tomorrow.

So I will just say that, I agree, and I applaud the civil, mature debate that you have all displayed here.

And, I hate Jonas. At first, I wasn't sure what to think about him. But this totally blows. I mean, if they go home, maybe they'll get captured or find something out and we'll learn something NEW and revealing.. just what we're all hoping for. But if they go to Jonas's house, all we will have is a boring love triangle, and essentially the OC for 12-year-olds (gag).

I do find the suggestion that Jonas will reflect Bree in a way that will force her into progression VERY interesting and possible. If the creators pull that off, well, all hail the creators.

However, I am under the impression that they aren't as clever and devious as you are.

Also, I strongly agree with earlier discussion about the depth of the story. Every so often, my hopeful, pleading wall of faith in the LG15 creators is let down by my ever-growing suspicion that they put a girl and a boy in a room with a picture of Aleister Crowley and let fans take it from there.

Oh, and they also threw in a chick named Cassie to see what happened. But I guess they didn't approve of the fans' development of that string of plot, and they just cut it off.

So now we have Jonas, totally out of the blue. He has a big house, money, and no parents. Cute.

Did they just throw him in at a desperate attempt to hold on to their remaining fans? Or are they actually going somewhere? I do love the interactive part of this series, but the creators have to take some responsibility in creating it.

And yes, this is meant to be told in "real" time. Personally, I would not be able to spend this long in an idle state when I'm being followed by an Order who kidnapped my parents. Then again, I don't think I would smile and shrug when my dad said "These needles are part of our 'religion' darling. They're good for you!"

However, while this may be possible in "real" time, there are still ways to overcome that. For example, everyone got bored of the "motel-hopping" thing, so the creators let OpAphid jack all their money and, BADA BING! They're homeless. No more motels.

Something can happen that will force an active response. As much as this is interactive, it isn't up to us to come up with it. It is up to the creators to give us some entertainment. If I wanted to watch a girl and a boy fight over stuffed animals, I would babysit more often (note the OpAphid reference HAHAHA I'm cool).

Where is the information? They gave us a mystery with no solution? They throw out random clues that lead us no where and we receive no confirmation to reward our detective work. To me, it seems like a total rip-off.

Bllllaaaagghhhhh.
Yeah.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

...wow.

So much for college applications.

[DreamerM]

Wow look at all the people who applauded me! I should have a fanclub.

Really, you'd think with smarts like mine, more Californians would want to hire me. Alas that a genius like mine goes jobless.

I'll type something up and then get back to job hunting.

I didn't watch the Jonas video. I couldn't care less about the layout of his house. Shut up and go away, you stupid waste of other-people's time.

OF COURSE the B/D vids are clausterphobic. Vlogs are supposed to consist of ONE person taping THIER life. The people you see are just the people around you.

To sum up my problem with the new charcters:

1) Thier videos are EXACTLY like B/Ds. Same exact editing style. Same lighting. Same basic personalities (upbeat and chipper), same visual gags. All the same. So much for mixing things up and letting the characters DIFFERENCES affect the way they supposedly edit film, so we can get a better sense of who these people are.

2) They have no way to communicate with b/d except through the vlogosphere.

If we must have a new character, then we need more characters like Daniel, who are actually capible of interacting with the main characters in person. We need them set-up. We need them talked about. We need to know where they fit, why they matter to the central characters and why WE should care about them.

About the plot at large:

I agree with the people who say this series was more gripping when it was a normal teenager's vlog with a sinister shadow overhanging it in the form of the cryptic references to horescopes, shots and pills, and a looming deadline by which things HAD to be figured out or the unknown ceremony would happen....

I think the vids leading up to, during, and directly after the ceremony were this show at it's finest.

To bad once the action started the creators dropped the ball. The whimsical video style deemphasizes the direness of thier plight, Bree turned from adorable and nieve to moronic and cowardly simply by the Writers/Directors/ EVERYONE not thinking to change her behaviour once the running started.

Gemma took OUR place on the show as the despenser of advice. Jonas is saying what a lot of people said and offering them shelter ("your fans will hide you") so we can't do that anymore either.

Sheesh people, isn't this supposed to be a psudointeractive experience? We're loosing the 'psudo,' fast.

And Bree wasn't awknowledging anyting in her video. Her trying to explain away her need to goof off with her dumb peices of suffed fabric was really the writers covering thier tracks now that it's clear how badly they have screwed up.

I don't care how sheltered you've been, a few days on the run from crazy cultists will turn anyone into a brooder, a sheamer, or a weeper.

This is the thing about crisis: you become more of what you already are. It's like you get superpowers, but those powers come from taking your personality to the umpteenth fold.

The only one who actually reacted to the situation in a convincing fashion was Gemma, who did come down down to earth, stop whinning, and get to work on being proactive. We see she's a reliable person underneath the....whatever, the nothing-chipperness she is the rest of the time.

Daniel, for all his whining and his insistence that he knows what the right thing to do is, hasn't either bodily FORCED bree to go home AND hasn't gone home without her. He's steadfast, but the fact that he has been so quick to forget how scared he was by those people counts against his judgment and against our empathy for him. WE remember how freaked out he was by the allusions to the ceremony, the shots, the pictures, and the religion in general (I think his third video or so was his first mention of how 'wierd' it was?). He's sure been quick to forget all that. WE remember even if he doesn't.

Start tying up loose ends. Go back to the old videos and start answering the unanswered questions from them, use those answers as a diving board for MORE questions and let's find out how deep this kiddie pool really is.

[GoodGollyItsHolly]

I like the show, I always have, I always will.

[DreamerM]

I like the show, I always have, I always will.

Good to know some people demand so much from thier entertainment. I hope my fans will be as obtusely easy to please as you are.

Really, I can only dream of someday dreaming up something that inspires such blind devotion without needing quality in itself, making me rich as #uck with no effort at all.

......Well, I am teh Dreamas, after all.

[Broken Kid]

I like the show, I always have, I always will.

Good to know some people demand so much from thier entertainment. I hope my fans will be as obtusely easy to please as you are.

Really, I can only dream of someday dreaming up something that inspires such blind devotion without needing quality in itself, making me rich as #uck with no effort at all.

I think your last post, Dreamer, was uncalled for. Holly was pointing out that not everyone loathes the series as much as you and some others appear to do. She has a differing opinion than you, which does not mean she's wrong or that you're right.

[milowent]

Well, its all well and good if holly likes the show and always has. That's cool.

The "always will" part, though? Come on! -- that invited DreamerM to keep up the dialouge -- because its kind of hard to say without knowing what's gonna happen with the show. they have to create a good product to keep their fans - i mean, what if every video from now on were jonas and gemma vids advertising pepto-bismol? (Gemma: "Bree, I think you should take some pepto-bismol, its your decision though." Jonas: "Stacey Peralta likes pepto, too, you know! rad!" Gemma: "In london, we hop on the tube to buy pepto-bismol whenever our peas and chips are not mixing well.") I think we'd all be signing off then.

[Lurker]

I think your last post, Dreamer, was uncalled for. Holly was pointing out that not everyone loathes the series as much as you and some others appear to do. She has a differing opinion than you, which does not mean she's wrong or that you're right.

I think to say that some of us loathe the series is a bit of a leap, and not really a fair inference from what we've been saying. If we didn't care, I can't imagine why we'd be here saying all that we have. We're just pointing out the major decline in quality that we've seen over the last couple of months. Ever since the fake ceremony, things really have gone downhill both in terms of anticipation and how much it seemed like they were really trying.

I acknowledge, though, that there's probably somebody out there who likes the last couple of months more than those before. And I'm not saying there haven't been good moments in them. In fact, my favorite moments of the series have been in the last couple of months, but that's two gems in a quarry of tons more rocks from my perspective.

That said, I do have to agree that Dreamer's comment toward Holly was uncalled for. There's no accounting for taste. If Holly likes everything that we've seen so far -- well, that's just her. I can't imagine why she does, but she might not be able to imagine why anyone else has been so disappointed in the series lately. Again, no accounting for taste. We all think differently -- even those of us who think similar still don't think exactly the same.

I imagine that many of us are also looking at this from different perspectives. Some people just want to be entertained. Others are looking at plot mechanics/writing. Others are looking at acting. Others might be looking at directing. Others still are looking at any combination of the four. And there's probably a perspective or two I've missed here.

I think Holly's entitled to love the series every bit as much as the rest of us are entitled to be disappointed in its development of late. Doesn't make her less intelligent or anything -- just means she's different, and is probably looking at this story from another perspective.

Anyway, back to your comment, BK, I can't speak for everyone else who's disappointed in the story right now, but for myself, the disappointment is because I do care about it, not because I loathe it. I bet that's true of pretty much all of us who have some disappointment or another.

[Broken Kid]

Anyway, back to your comment, BK, I can't speak for everyone else who's disappointed in the story right now, but for myself, the disappointment is because I do care about it, not because I loathe it. I bet that's true of pretty much all of us who have some disappointment or another.

Indeed. Loathe was too strong of a word (although from some people's posts, that's exactly how I take it, but not yours, Lurker). I suppose I'm mixed on these posts, in particular. Some offer very good suggestions. Some seem to pile negative comment on top of negative comment. Those who disagree or who enjoy the story or who are watching to see what happens next without making judgements are staying away from this thread, so the net result is an overwhelmingly negative and discouraging discussion. (Discouraging, I mean, to those who don't agree that all of these issues are problems and who enjoy watching for entertainment.)

[storyteller]

You know what I really love about LG15?? It's a new art form. We're not just looking at entertainment - if we were I wouldn't be here. The thing about new art forms is that they are bound to be experimental, try new things and eventually they will make some heinous error.

Can we all try to remember that there is no precident for this? Some aspects of it- like the chat- there are precident for, but there is no way to tell how this new approach is going to affect the things that the creators thought they understood.

Lets be honest, LG15 is probably far more successful than the creators thought it would be. Just because there are thousands of people who check this site religiously, doesn't mean the creators can anticipate everything.

If you think they're doing a bad job or they aren't filling the story in with enough depth- attempt the art form yourself, and see how easy it is.

Americans are so used to everything being so well-researched, pre-packaged and sanitized that the messiness of a new art-form is hard for us to deal with. Well, deal with it.

[milowent]

You know what I really love about LG15?? It's a new art form. We're not just looking at entertainment - if we were I wouldn't be here. The thing about new art forms is that they are bound to be experimental, try new things and eventually they will make some heinous error.

Can we all try to remember that there is no precident for this? Some aspects of it- like the chat- there are precident for, but there is no way to tell how this new approach is going to affect the things that the creators thought they understood.

i love the newness too, storyteller, but the new art-form term we throw around is a bit overblown. i thought that at 1st too, and later came to learn there were many web-video based series from 1995-1998, staring with The Spot in 1995. Watch this blurb about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCZZKwzKIRo and wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spot

There are new elements of Lg15, to be sure, driven both by advanced technology and the creators' vision. And lg15's popularity appears to eclipse those earlier efforts, but its not a completely new thing.

If you think they're doing a bad job or they aren't filling the story in with enough depth- attempt the art form yourself, and see how easy it is.

Americans are so used to everything being so well-researched, pre-packaged and sanitized that the messiness of a new art-form is hard for us to deal with. Well, deal with it.

Well, you are really hitting a core issue in the debate here. I submit that the largest portion of lg15 fandom are those interested in just being entertained. They don't attempt the art form because they are consumers. They'll just leave the show behind if they don't like it. The revver vids get up to around 20K views, but far viewers bother to post at the forum.

The suggestions made by DreamerM -- like making something gripping happen in the plot NOW -- are constructive suggestions, whether they are adopted or not. I myself will keep watching because i am interested to see where the creators go with it, even if it gets horrendous, but I also know they need to keep their audience too!

[storyteller]

The suggestions made by DreamerM -- like making something gripping happen in the plot NOW -- are constructive suggestions, whether they are adopted or not. I myself will keep watching because i am interested to see where the creators go with it, even if it gets horrendous, but I also know they need to keep their audience too!

Milowent- I always appreciate when you post because it always tends to be thoughtful.

While I think there have been other series (I'm mostly ignorant on this matter) I don't think the technology has really been widely used enough to make them mainstream- which is always an issue when new forms of anything are growing.

I think it's interesting that there is a concern about the audience staying with them. At this point it doesn't really offer them much advantage. By their own admission they aren't making any money at this- so does it really matter if the audience stays?? On the other hand- who wants to suck?

The ironic part of my post is that I think the creators really do need to offer us something in the way of plot development- anyone with half a brain could see everything that's happened in the last three weeks about a mile away. Predictability isn't always a huge advantage and is it really art if there is no audience?

[lesbrent]

Milo, thanks for mentioning ScottZ's the Spot, and he also did Soup of the Day not that long ago. Online webisodes have been around for quite some time. Not just in people mode, but cartoons as well - (campchaos.com).

I think the credence of a "new form of art" isn't really true, however the creators really hit the market at a great time with youtube being less than a year old and as a way to get an audience for free, without lots of viral marketing and spamming and word-of-mouth advertising. It was really being at the right place at the right time.

I'm excited to see what other stories they are developing.

One thing everyone in this thread knows but has kinda forgot to mention: I don't think lonelygirl15 would be what it is if Jessica Lee Rose wasn't cast as the main character. It's HER that got all of us hooked. We just really want the character she is playing to develop as she should, not stay the same.

[DreamerM]

There are many different forms in which to tell a story. The media by which those stories can be told has changed many times over the corse of human history. Today many different kinds of storytelling media exist: from books, magazines, video games (yes, the good ones have stories too), movies, comic books, and now, the internet.

there is always a learning curve. People goof off in the new stuff. Some downright aweful material is created, because it's just a *insert media type here* so why take it seriously?

Guess what. Its a STORY, dumba$$. If you can look past the revoutionary media and just concentrate on telling your story the best way you can, then you are worth my time. If you can take your fiction seriously, then we can do business. If you can't then it's time for you to go do something else.

the way by which you tell the story is always second to the story being told. Stop whinning about the growing pains and start taking the story seriously in and of itself and THEN we can do business.

I understand people think I was too harsh on Holly. Those people are wrong. It is people like holly who are responsible for a 6th Rocky movie being greenlit, or a 4th American Pie sequel. It's people like her who keep sitcoms being syndicated YEARS after thier scripts turn into crap. She's the reason execs dump thier resources into properties far, far past thier prime instead of axing those tired old shows and seeking out something new and fresh to entertain us with.

Demand QUALITY from that which you consume. It's not so much to ask for. Don't remain faithful to a sub-par title that has entertained you in the past. Make them EARN your loyalty.