Flame Wars

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:54 pm

sphinx wrote:
itsreallyreal wrote: 2. Before you post anything, read the Announcement and Sticky threads in each section as they contain important information that is frequently asked about. Also use the Search function at the top of the page to look for a previous thread on a topic you want to post about. Chances are something you want to talk about has already been discussed many times before so please use common courtesy and search, and add to existing threads. Threads about old topics that are posted will be locked.

-Note: Posting in very old threads, that are months old or more, is not allowed if you don't have a legitimate reason....

3. Make sure you are posting your thread in the correct section....

4. Spamming of any kind will not be tolerated. Spam includes, but is not limited to, one word posts, "pointless" posts and threads (posts that clearly serve no purpose), posts that are attempting to do nothing more than raise a user's post count....
I love love love these.
I vote for zero tolerance!

I think that that is the idea they are trying to gain with our forum rules and regs, but they aren't followed consistantly

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:56 pm

sphinx wrote:You use your examples to make your points, I'll use mine.

Then use them within the guidelines of the topic instead of attacking me and telling me what I'm failing to do or bring absolute specifics into somewthing where it doesn't belong. I don't have moderator powers and I didn't selectively delete posts to put myself in a more favorable light. I didn't threaten to have anyone banned for doing something I told people to do.

Sphinx...really...this is about trying to find a solution, not harp on individual flame wars. Moderators have more responsibility. I used my example in te most general way I could to identify inconsistent moderation and poor moderator behavior.

You can't deny what this moderator did. It doesn't matter her motivation or anything of the sort. She was the moderator and should have been above personal insults, and been more consistent in dealing with the insults that were thrown. If it's offends some people to say I say I think she abused her powers...and gave examples of such (for which the admins have FAR more documented detail including PMs) then I think those people need to seriously consider what's being said in this thread.

Why does it bother you that we're suggesting moderators be fully consistent? Why are you defending the problem that we've been trying to maturely identify? Those are questions that I think you should seriously ponder.

I think if you read a little closer, I've never said I wasn't to blame in some things...sometimes, people forget to see that for their own convenience because they're still trying to berate something that is past to defend the actions of their friends. Which, ironically enough..is the very problem we're trying to talk about here.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:58 pm

Let's not forget the earlier suggestion that there be an initiation thread for newbs. This could really help diffuse the situation where people are feeling uncomfortable joining in because the get jumped on for not being up to speed on the rules and the topics.

tigerlilylynn · Post by **tigerlilylynn** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:12 pm

*returns from school*
*reads PM*
*Boggle*

OK so this is TLDR territory so I'll answer the thing I'm guessing I got nailed on. My definition of trolling is not how long a person's been around or how much they've previously contributed.

To me, a troll is anyone who trys to fan the fires and start a fight. This includes, at different times mind you (and don't kill me people) Shinx, Bethy, Horc, Spacie, JerseyJohnny, Iamcool, myself at times I'm sure, and tons of other people who have later regretted what they've said (or not).

Coming in and going: You know what? This dead topic stirs in me the feeling of grudge wank, a personal issue, a personal disposition or what have you is often trolling or poor filtering.

My comment was not intended as a slam on the OP but a directive to those who were reacting with just as much RAWR to let it go. If they couldn't respond to the bait with a calm argument then they shouldn't respond and if they know the person they are debating with will NEVER surrender the "higher ground" then they shouldn't try to fight them for it becuase it's most likely a garbage heap by the time you "win".

EDIT: ignore my personal meaning. Replace with the word Wanker. Someone who starts, maintains, or otherwise contributes to internet drama that has no foreseeable positive out comes

sphinx · Post by **sphinx** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:17 pm

bethy wrote:Sphinx...really...this is about trying to find a solution, not harp on individual flame wars. Moderators have more responsibility.

You bring up a specific situation, expect a reply from another perspective. That's what a discussion is -- there are 2 sides to everything.

You can't deny what this moderator did... etc. etc.

Denial? Complete disagreement is more appropriate. Perspective is key.

I've never said I wasn't to blame in some things...

Still not seeing it.

sometimes, people forget to see that for their own convenience because they're still trying to berate a something that is past to defend the actions of their friends. Which, ironicaly enough..is the very problem we're trying to talk about here.

Ironically enough, although I have much respect and appreciation for many, I do not consider anyone in this game to be my "friend". 99% of my participation is on the sidelines and after the fact. One-on-one personal interaction with others, for me, is pretty much non-existent and what I have time for. Do not confuse my respect for this game I absolutely adore and my defense of people who are important to it as blind loyalty for friends.

Does it help if I blatantly say that you may have your own issues with the Operator, but my issue with you specifically is that your actions during the situation you have decided to use as an example ruined the drop for me?

No one on this thread is discussing the "causes".
How do you remedy something when you don't investigate what is causing the problem or talk about prevention?

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:18 pm

tigerlilylynn wrote:*returns from school*
*reads PM*
*Boggle*

OK so this is TLDR territory so I'll answer the thing I'm guessing I got nailed on. My definition of trolling is not how long a person's been around or how much they've previously contributed.

To me, a troll is anyone who trys to fan the fires and start a fight. This includes, at different times mind you (and don't kill me people) Shinx, Bethy, Horc, Spacie, JerseyJohnny, Iamcool, myself at times I'm sure, and tons of other people who have later regretted what they've said (or not).

Coming in and going: You know what? This dead topic stirs in me the feeling of grudge wank, a personal issue, a personal disposition or what have you is often trolling or poor filtering.

My comment was not intended as a slam on the OP but a directive to those who were reacting with just as much RAWR to let it go. If they couldn't respond to the bait with a calm argument then they shouldn't respond and if they know the person they are debating with will NEVER surrender the "higher ground" then they shouldn't try to fight them for it becuase it's most likely a garbage heap by the time you "win".

If you read back, you'll see this is not a personal issue. It is a greater issue of a climate that supports these personal issues arising and ruining the greater experience for all involved.

tigerlilylynn · Post by **tigerlilylynn** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:20 pm

Luminous wrote:
tigerlilylynn wrote:*returns from school*
*reads PM*
*Boggle*

OK so this is TLDR territory so I'll answer the thing I'm guessing I got nailed on. My definition of trolling is not how long a person's been around or how much they've previously contributed.

To me, a troll is anyone who trys to fan the fires and start a fight. This includes, at different times mind you (and don't kill me people) Shinx, Bethy, Horc, Spacie, JerseyJohnny, Iamcool, myself at times I'm sure, and tons of other people who have later regretted what they've said (or not).

Coming in and going: You know what? This dead topic stirs in me the feeling of grudge wank, a personal issue, a personal disposition or what have you is often trolling or poor filtering.

My comment was not intended as a slam on the OP but a directive to those who were reacting with just as much RAWR to let it go. If they couldn't respond to the bait with a calm argument then they shouldn't respond and if they know the person they are debating with will NEVER surrender the "higher ground" then they shouldn't try to fight them for it becuase it's most likely a garbage heap by the time you "win".
If you read back, you'll see this is not a personal issue. It is a greater issue of a climate that supports these personal issues arising and ruining the greater experience for all involved.

Comment was definition of troll as per me. Not anything to do with you. ^_^

Buggar · Post by **Buggar** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:23 pm

Since I was redirected to here, I'm going to state here ... BK, as much as I love you, I completely disagree with your judgement call. You can't always cater to the children, just because one has a tantrum doesn't mean you have to punish the whole class.

Now I shall go back through and read what happened while I was sleeping.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:25 pm

tigerlilylynn wrote:
Comment was definition of troll as per me. Not anything to do with you. ^_^

I'm willing to accept this, but I am new to forums. I have no idea what your definition of a troll is. I genuinely would like you to explain it to me.

sphinx · Post by **sphinx** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:30 pm

tigerlilylynn wrote:To me, a troll is anyone who trys to fan the fires and start a fight. This includes, at different times mind you (and don't kill me people) Shinx...

Wow, to be included in this group is giggle worthy.

Tiger I have much respect for you, but responding to a flame is quite different than trolling imo.

I admit to one post regarding the "G" word that was, in my confusion of threads being posted all over and disappearing at the time, and an admitted not reading the complete original post, as a fanning of the fires.
I also posted an apology for it.

I stand by everything else I've written. Funny how a couple of days of active debate and defense of something important to me lumps me in with legends such as these.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:30 pm

Buggar wrote:Since I was redirected to here, I'm going to state here ... BK, as much as I love you, I completely disagree with your judgement call. You can't always cater to the children, just because one has a tantrum doesn't mean you have to punish the whole class.

Now I shall go back through and read what happened while I was sleeping.

Hi Buggar, I was there when it happened, and actually, it made sense to consolidate the discussion in one thread instead of having them run parallel.

itsreallyreal · Post by **itsreallyreal** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:32 pm

I think Lilly's post in the Gen forum speak volumes...

Don't feed the troll...

I have to be honest though... when too many trolls hit the same thread or call a place home and are not weeded out it gets to be rough seas out there...

A wise MOD once said to me... (This is a TOTAL paraphrase...)

"We each have our times to be the victims and to be the villian... "

and it is so true!...

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:32 pm

Denial? Complete disagreement is more appropriate. Perspective is key.

Again, sphinx...you don't have the entire story. So until you do, you can't disagree with anything. This moderadotr selectively deleted posts that put her in a bad light, and leaving others personally attacking me. She's that one who TOLD US to flame her. Did you miss that part? She, the mod, told us to flame her. So, when I did, she couldn't take it.

A moderator doing her job properly and consistently would never have even opened herself up for the drama. I can think of at least 3 other good solutions to what was happeneing that day, even suggested two of them. But she would not listen and conintued things in public and in PM.

So, until you have the entire story with ALL of the facts...you're not doing anything but coming off as defending a friend, because the things you are saying are towing the line, as it were...with the rest of them.

Now...AGAIN...continue to attack me...that's your pergoative, but this thread is NOT about what happend on Friday. It's abot how to work around flames wars, personal attacks and as it has turned out...getting moderation to be more consistent. Since what happened to me was a CLEAR example of inconsistencey....it was entirely on topic and I am trying to be as mature about it as humanly possible. But you keep harping on it in her defense...when you don't know the whole story. And until the admins tell me that what she did and said to me was perfectly in-line with the type of moderation that should be happening here, then I stand by it. I'm sonfident, though...that isn't going to happen. I'm going to leave it at that.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:32 pm

Luminous wrote:
Buggar wrote:Since I was redirected to here, I'm going to state here ... BK, as much as I love you, I completely disagree with your judgement call. You can't always cater to the children, just because one has a tantrum doesn't mean you have to punish the whole class.

Now I shall go back through and read what happened while I was sleeping.
Hi Buggar, I was there when it happened, and actually, it made sense to consolidate the discussion in one thread instead of having them run parallel.

it did make complete sense,
although it was nice to have an angry thread and a serious thread.
I'm scared this thread will turn into an anger thread

itsreallyreal · Post by **itsreallyreal** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:34 pm

sphinx wrote:
tigerlilylynn wrote:To me, a troll is anyone who trys to fan the fires and start a fight. This includes, at different times mind you (and don't kill me people) Shinx...
Wow, to be included in this group is giggle worthy.

Tiger I have much respect for you, but responding to a flame is quite different than trolling imo.

I admit to one post regarding the "G" word that was, in my confusion of threads being posted all over and disappearing at the time, and an admitted not reading the complete original post, as a fanning of the fires.
I also posted an apology for it.

I stand by everything else I've written. Funny how a couple of days of active debate and defense of something important to me lumps me in with legends such as these.

I agree Sphinx that responding is not trolling.. rsponding is feeding the troll...