0070 Learning Egyptian [11/9/06]

[lonelygirl]

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is never a reliable source of information, regardless. Anyone can edit the content of the page at any time. I could simply click "Edit this page", and go on to detail about how "The Order" is an organization mean to worship Winnie the Pooh.

I definitely wouldn't be relying on anything put forth by Wikipedia.

whatever, wikipedia rocks.

[lonelygirl]

THE ORDER???

All those wasted hours researching obscure religions. Oh well I guess I learnt somthing in the process, but as others have mentioned what about the shrine, the shots, the enochian etc. etc.

hmmm is anyone else starting to think that maybe the creators have changed the script to try and end this sooner than they planned? Or is it just a convienient way to steer the plot away from the Thelema angle?

i have a feeling it's a way to steer the plot away from thelema b/c there are some thelemas on this forum complaining about how they don't want their religion misrepresented. so what better way to not upset any religious groups than to make a secret society. and when did the order of denderah become just the order? i guess bree has no clue what she's in.

[lonelygirl]

But what about the equinox and the religion camp?

Yes and,

Aleister Crowley, Enochian, Bibliomancy, the Unicusal Hexagram (at the top of LG15 page), Thelema (in Greek at the bottom of the page), 10/12?06 (Crowleys Birthday),the Ceremony, The Order of Denderah, the injections, the maps (on Lucy's computer), Elders, Deacons, communes and communities.

How do all these clues and dropped hints fit together?

And now Gemma "it is not Thelema, but a secret society, called The Order" and they learn ancient Egyptian.

I'm confused, does anyone think there is any consistency here? Or are they just making it up as they go, the hell with consistency!

Yikes, I hope they're paying attention to the details. After the richness and complexity they've provided so far, if this is just a slip, or a mad scramble to get something "out there", that would really be awful.

Because you're right, this really flies in the face of everything that's been said before. How many times has Bree said something like "I take my religious beliefs very seriously"? It's one thing to be misinformed or mistaken about the tenets of one's religion, but it's quite another to be mistaken about whether it is a religion or not.

And what kind of lame secret society would you belong to, if you sat around for fun and learned ancient Egyptian? Without the tie to religion and worship, it doesn't make any sense. There's no point to it.

UMW

ok, just b/c gemma said they had to learn ancient egyptian doesn't mean that's all they do in their secret society. geez. gemma seems almost as clueless about what it is and what they do as bree is so she obviously doesn't know much about it, hence she has to do some research and learning egyptian is not the whole story.

[lonelygirl]

fat lady, to some extent I agree.

I realise that we all knew that this was not the religion as is, but some offshoot of it created to fit the story.

But it WAS an offshoot of thelema and it was a religon.

I dont know about everyone else but in my case, although I did watch the vids pre-crowley, it was the occult overtones and the suggestion of something 'dark' beneath the surface that really roped me in. I felt that this was a really innovative way of building up the suspence.

I just feel that this is a way of avoiding explaining that fully.

I'm not creator-bashing particularly, I love the show, i just feel that this is a bit of a cop-out. if they hadn't stated in this vid that it was not a religion i would not of been so dissapointed, It's just that we KNOW it was a religion of some form, Thelama or not, and now they're trying fob us off with some super-duper secret society. lame lame lame.

I'm a massive LOST fan and I get the same feeling as i do with that show in that the creators are creating mysteries to rope people in and then treating the fans like idiots by offering a sub-standard explanation.

well anyways...

P.S Anyone feel that the new sponsership deal could have anything to do with this....i.e. the sponser not wanting do be associated with anything to do with a religion that some have (misplaced) negative feelings about?

ok, i think you were so far in deep thinking it was a religion, thelema or an offshoot of thelema. i think it was pretty established a long time ago that it was neither so no wonder you're disappointed.

[lonelygirl]

So I'm curious...if Bree's parents, who have presumably been in this religion or order for so long, don't seem to know anything about this, why does Gemma know so much? Why does Gemma know so much about this in general? Hmmm...

And to those who were saying Bree's in the Order of Denderah, that's never been said. She said her parents don't know anything about the ceremony because they're not in the Order of Denderah. Bree doesn't know anything about the ceremony either. I assume the Order of Denderah is a part of this Order...although that is going to cause some confusion...The Order of Denderah of The Order...

hey, that would explain the video they have on youtube, paytotheorderofofof....see how many "of" is in the title, haha.

[trunbuns]

ok, i think you were so far in deep thinking it was a religion, thelema or an offshoot of thelema. i think it was pretty established a long time ago that it was neither so no wonder you're disappointed.

Right, I can understand people saying there is no connection with Thelema, due to connversations with real thelemites. i just don't see where it was established that it wasn't a religion. there was no indication before this video that it wasn't a religion, whereas there was a lot to suggest that it was.

Obviously now it's not though.

It's 'The Order'

[lonelygirl]

Should we be trying to find an Egyptian language book with gold and jewels?

Yes!

*scurrying off to library*

I refuse to do anymore research for fear of the anger/disappointment later on when the Creators try to make something as important as Crowley/Thelema disappear. They aren't the only ones who spend a lot of time on LG15 and they need to remember that when they do $#@% like this. Not Thelema? Bullsh*t.

Actually, the only people who have said it was Thelema were fans speculating the religion. We had Thelemites come in and share with us what Thelema is about, and while it looks like it is one of the religions the creatatrons pulled ideas from, it was pretty obvious that it was NOT Thelema. The creators never said it, Brie never said it. It was our speculation, so the creatatrons are not back tracking or making us forget anything. Everything so far still makes sense with crowley, etc.

thank you. don't know why people are so disappointed it's not thelema when i think the many of the previous videos have clearly established it as not being thelema. gemma just confirmed it for us.

[lonelygirl]

Even though it is on the website, no one has confirmed this is Thelema nor no one has denied it. Who's to say a member didn't branch off of Thelema or any other religion and start their own Order?

Yeh, i can agree with this. To be honest its not the thelema thing i'm most annoyed about, it's the complete backtracking from religous connections, and the flimsy concept of a secret society im peeved at.

what? just b/c they're a secret society doesn't mean they can't have religious elements in there. you can just make up whatever sh** you want with a secret society so all of the stuff with crowley, equinox, etc. can still all be valid.

[trunbuns]

what? just b/c they're a secret society doesn't mean they can't have religious elements in there. you can just make up whatever sh** you want with a secret society so all of the stuff with crowley, equinox, etc. can still all be valid.

This is kinda what i'm p*ssed off about... the fact that it's some kind of explain all cure for the clues and trails they've left for us.

I hope i'm wrong, and i hope this turns out to be benificial to the story. it's just that I don't believe this is what they had in mind when they started the story... and it's just, ...you know...weak...a sunglasses wearing, shiny black car driving, black suit donning order?

just generic and...just....weak.

I'm disapointed is all...

[lonelygirl]

ok, i think you were so far in deep thinking it was a religion, thelema or an offshoot of thelema. i think it was pretty established a long time ago that it was neither so no wonder you're disappointed.

Right, I can understand people saying there is no connection with Thelema, due to connversations with real thelemites. i just don't see where it was established that it wasn't a religion. there was no indication before this video that it wasn't a religion, whereas there was a lot to suggest that it was.

Obviously now it's not though.

It's 'The Order'

probably because there has been clues that doesn't tie in with one specific religion and you see them heading further and further off with each video in the later part of the series. i always felt it was more of a cult type thing because it didn't fit with any established religion. but that doesn't mean there can't be religious elements to it.

[lonelygirl]

what? just b/c they're a secret society doesn't mean they can't have religious elements in there. you can just make up whatever sh** you want with a secret society so all of the stuff with crowley, equinox, etc. can still all be valid.

This is kinda what i'm p*ssed off about... the fact that it's some kind of explain all cure for the clues and trails they've left for us.

I hope i'm wrong, and i hope this turns out to be benificial to the story. it's just that I don't believe this is what they had in mind when they started the story... and it's just, ...you know...weak...a sunglasses wearing, shiny black car driving, black suit donning order?

just generic and...just....weak.

I'm disapointed is all...

that was a fake ceremony.

and i think even if they started with the idea of thelema or some specific religion or whatever, i'm not upset b/c to me, it has been pretty clear from many of the previous videos that they are heading off in a different direction with it. and many of those ideas that it wasn't thelema, etc. was posted in the religion section of the forum.

[trunbuns]

that was a fake ceremony

I know it was a fake ceremony, But they're always dressed like that.

However I do agree that they've been goin in a different direction for a while now, ever since the fake ceremony in fact, thats why i'm upset about (in my opinion) this instance of backtracking.

you can't tell me that they had always planned for the ceremony to be fake. I feel that they felt tied down by the date they themselves had set and wanted to extend the project, so they had the whole fake ceremony thing go down. At this point however anti-climatic the event was I wasn't too perturbed because it meant more LG15.

But now i don't feel like we're gonna get any answers to the mysteries posed by the series initially. I dont think think we're going to see the story play out as was originally intended.

It's not like i'm going to stop watching or anything I'm just going to be wary of any information the creators put in front of us from now on.

to be honest i'm already highly anticipating the next video so I can't be that p*ssed

EDIT: for typos

[omegawoman]

that was a fake ceremony

I know it was a fake ceremony, But they're always dressed like that.

However I do agree that they've been goin in a different direction for a while now, ever since the fake ceremony in fact, thats why i'm upset about (in my opinion) this instance of backtracking.

you can't tell me that they had always planned for the ceremony to be fake. I feel that they felt tied down by the date they themselves had set and wanted to extend the project, so they had the whole fake ceremony thing go down. At this point however anti-climatic the event was I wasn't too perturbed because it meant more LG15.

But now i don't feel like we're gonna get any answers to the mysteries posed by the series initially. I dont think think we're going to see the story play out as was originally intended.

It's not like i'm going to stop watching or anything I'm just going to be wary of any information the creators put in front of us from now on.

to be honest i'm already highly anticipating the next video so I can't be that p*ssed

EDIT: for typos

I too am waiting a new video.

What the creators are putting in front of us are our own ideas and suggestions. It flip flops because we do. Do they have a basic story line planned out? I am sure they do, but they also feed off of us.

[thejyav]

Howcome everyone thought Gemma was full of lies until she said this and now the majority of the people are assuming that she is speaking the gospel. This is ontop of the fact that she herself said she needs to do more research. I will agree that this could go in a bad direction but we don't know if she is right or telling the truth. Also I think some people are just upset that if this is the case they won't be right. They did all this research and want to be able to say look what we did. When you haven't even been proven wrong as of yet. Am I the only one that thinks if this is a big giant change in plot that it was done rather flippant? Maybe thats bad writing and acting but maybe its something deeper.

[omegawoman]

Howcome everyone thought Gemma was full of lies until she said this and now the majority of the people are assuming that she is speaking the gospel. This is ontop of the fact that she herself said she needs to do more research. I will agree that this could go in a bad direction but we don't know if she is right or telling the truth. Also I think some people are just upset that if this is the case they won't be right. They did all this research and want to be able to say look what we did. When you haven't even been proven wrong as of yet. Am I the only one that thinks if this is a big giant change in plot that it was done rather flippant? Maybe thats bad writing and acting but maybe its something deeper.

I personally have always like Gemma. I think the Creators are purposly making her vague. We don't know her yet, her character is not yet fully developed. It still could go either way with her. I am hoping she is one of the good guys with very valuable information to help Bree and Daniel find Bree's parents. If she is one of the bad guys, well, it would just make things all the more interesting.