0132 - Drinking Problems [2/13/07]

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:22 am

My favorite part was the mention of the Chester Molester van.

nobackspacebutton · Post by **nobackspacebutton** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:23 am

There were some very interesting topics covered in these past 10 pages.

For those of you who don't feel like going back...here's what they were:

1) If Daniel was programmed in some way, not just under the influence of certain drugs, what kind of "trigger" set off his programming to allow him to go with the Cowboy and follow the Orders instructions?

2) If he was programmed, then Daniel perhaps is a Sleeper Agent. The Order might be able to use him again and at any time.

3) When we got angry at Bree for not telling us about certain things, like her religion or what the ceremony was..maybe that all makes sense now. For everything she didn't tell Daniel about, might have been everything he didn't spill to the Order when he was under their control.

4) When Daniel said that Jonas was a "bad influence", he didn't litterally mean that Jonas was causing him to do anything wrong. He meant that Jonas causes him to rightly think about his life and analyze it.

5) POW means Prisoner of War.

Also, props to everyone that contributed to this post. ^_^ You know who you are.

heybitch · Post by **heybitch** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:25 am

Thank you er.. button.

nobackspacebutton · Post by **nobackspacebutton** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:26 am

heybitch wrote:Thank you er.. button.

Call me BA

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:34 am

Thanks, BA! The only one I don't really agree with is number three. If he's a sleeper with Op...he wouldn't need to know about her religion...because they are at the top of the "religion", kwim?

nobackspacebutton · Post by **nobackspacebutton** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:44 am

Kasdeja wrote:Thanks, BA! The only one I don't really agree with is number three. If he's a sleeper with Op...he wouldn't need to know about her religion...because they are at the top of the "religion", kwim?

Well, Sleeper Agent only in terms of he is STILL brainwashed. He is not under their control because whatever his 'trigger' is hasn't been triggered. This is possible unless he has underwent some kind of deprogramming with Tachyon.

PinkoLady · Post by **PinkoLady** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:51 am

Joel wrote:
PinkoLady wrote:
Joel wrote:I think people are overreacting about the references to jonas
Seriously.
I do hope you were enforcing my point and backing me up and not being sarcastic to me, otherwise i may cry

This is about 7 pages late, but-- haha, yeah, I was agreeing with you, and rolling my eyes at the people who were freaking out about "Dr.Jonas."

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:54 am

lol, No, I don't disagree with the sleeper part...just the part of why he got upset when she wouldn't tell him things. The order already knew what she knew about her religion. That's what I meant.

nobackspacebutton · Post by **nobackspacebutton** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:01 am

Kasdeja wrote:lol, No, I don't disagree with the sleeper part...just the part of why he got upset when she wouldn't tell him things. The order already knew what she knew about her religion. That's what I meant.

Wow. I can't count. lol

Sorry about that, Kas.

Here was the exact quote that I read, props to the poster:

AM wrote:
ETA: Remember how many of us were so frustrated with Bree for not telling Daniel everything she knows about her religion and the Order? Remember how annoyed many of us were when she wouldn't tell us or Daniel or Jonas everything her dad revealed to her? Seems she was wise to keep her mouth shut. Daniel might have told OP many things but, thanks to Bree's wise decision to remain tight lipped, there is also much that even Daniel doesn't know.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:19 am

Still doesn't make sense to me, though. If OpAphid is her 'religion' then they don't need her to tell daniel things about her religion so he can tell them. They taught her and Lucy was her mentor. Oh well, lol.

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:56 am

onsweetavenue wrote:I don't think alcohol was the trigger for the state alone. Blackouts, sure, but alcohol in so much excess that it woulc cause a 5 day blackout would have a HELL of a hangover period and be extremely harmful to your health.

No, no, no. I don't think anyone is saying (I'm certainly not) that alcohol alone was responsible for Daniel's brainwashed mental state. That would make no sense at all. What I'm suggesting, following up on tayduh's original idea, is that Oppy brainwashed Daniel in some other fashion -- hypnotism, chemical- or drug-induced -- and that alcohol is either the trigger, or (responding to criticism of the trigger idea) the mechanism for letting his defenses down low enough that the trigger can be, well, triggered.

jessiann wrote:No offense sweetavenue to your opinion, but not all alcoholics need to hit rock bottom and blame everyone before choosing to deal with the consequences of their drinking. Sometimes clarity comes from scaring the shit out of yourself, and realizing the mistakes you make when you drink. Believe me, I've been there.

Me too, jessiann. I stopped drinking when I embarrassed myself publicly once too often.

It was funny when I was in college, and somewhat less funny when I was in my 20s, but after that . . .

onsweetavenue wrote:Technically alcoholics are...addicted to alcohol. He wasn't even drinking in a routine. He had two encounters with alcohol in 4 months. He binged twice.

But he also spent 16 years living with two alcoholics, watching what they went through -- and experiencing what they put him through. He said, "You know, I'm not gonna be careless like my parents were. It's not about covering my own ass, it's...it's about watching out for one another."

He doesn't want to "violently ignore" Bree the way his parents did to him. Especially in this situation, he wants to make sure he's there -- not just physically, but mentally and emotionally -- to watch out for her.

Plus, you don't have to "drink in a routine" to be an alcoholic. Plenty of alcoholics are binge drinkers.

I hit my personal bottom after two binges in . . . um . . . hey, it was four months for me too -- one in April, and one in July. Ten years ago this year.

nobackspacebutton wrote:
heybitch wrote:Thank you er.. button.
Call me BA

Now I understand your sig!

imogene2004 · Post by **imogene2004** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:56 am

Kasdeja wrote:Still doesn't make sense to me, though. If OpAphid is her 'religion' then they don't need her to tell daniel things about her religion so he can tell them. They taught her and Lucy was her mentor. Oh well, lol.

Well, I think it would make sense if Bree's dad told her some stuff she's not supposed to know and Daniel spilled it to the order. As long as they think Bree is still pretty naive about it all, she has the upperhand.

Seamoss · Post by **Seamoss** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:01 am

I am paraphrasing here, but didn't Daniel indicate that his parents drinking habits were a way of dealing with their "situation". What situation? Did I miss something?

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:07 am

I noticed that too, Seamoss. I don't know what "situation" he's referring to either. Will take a look back at the transcripts in the LGPedia to see if he's mentioned anything.

covedweller · Post by **covedweller** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:13 am

Languorous Lass wrote:I noticed that too, Seamoss. I don't know what "situation" he's referring to either. Will take a look back at the transcripts in the LGPedia to see if he's mentioned anything.

He said that his parents would rather be numb than deal with life:

"It's like they were both self-medicating. Unless they were numb, life was just...too much to deal with."

The following line:

"Given our situation, I can kinda understand why a person would find that preferable."

By that he meant the situation he is in with Bree and Jonas makes him understand how someone would want to be numb to things.