well i think you should go on a hike and have a picnic
i think the room is becoming very skary for her
she should be out in the sun!
i know that would make me feel better!
your suggestions
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pugmypet13
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kimmycat
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I personally am terrified of one thing. If Jonas does manage to get her back to normal (Which I have full confidence that he will be able to do), if the Order does manage to get Bree again and re-brainwash her imagine what that will do to her mental state....
Jonas it is REALLY important to make sure she doesn't fall into their hands again!
Jonas it is REALLY important to make sure she doesn't fall into their hands again!
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tigerlilylynn
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banatogurl
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I was just thinking that. People in the chat last night were mentioning photos and you said you didnt have any. Maybe show her that father's day collage. maybe that will helpGet that father's day gift from the box
by the way ive been watching LG for quite awhile now but its my first post so sorry if other people have mentioned this i just thought maybe that would help...
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banatogurl
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berninabelle
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Please Listen
I posted this somewhere else but then I found this and thought I should post it again...
As a former member of what some people would call a cult, and many others would call a "brainwashing cult", I can't believe that there wasn't more effort put in to understanding what the effects of brainwashing are really like and how brainwashing/deprogramming works.
Deprogramming is NOT a program. In fact, it isn't even a science or a medicinal practice. Deprogramming is brainwashing light - it does not get rid of the brainwashing you have endured, it overrides it and brainwashes you into behaving like you are normal again, but you are actually just adding layers to the gunk piling up in your head.
The only exception to this is when the person voluntarily offers themselves to be "deprogrammed". However, this isn't really deprogramming at all because in these cases the person who needs deprogramming wasn't ever really programmed, just convinced.
It seems to me that Bree is not volunteering for anything and althought she looks as though she is getting better, she is really only creating a new mask to hide her tormented self.
The truth is, the best thing to do for someone who has been "brainwashed" is to treat them like a normal human being.
All of this attention - the force, the fawning all over her, the teasing, the touching -STOP IT! You're making it worse by treating her like she's sick when she KNOWS she isn't. (although she seems to be showing signs that you're brainwashing her into believing that she is and it's starting to override what she is already... oh lord, this is just getting confusing on paper)
If she is not listening - talk about something you don't care if she hears. tell stories in her vacinity, keep the news on, let her stare out that window until she gets bored. My family did what they called the "trash test" when I came home. Every morning, they would ask me to take out the trash. Mostly I wasn't listening, but one day I heard them and decided I might as well fucking do it and I went and took out the damned trash.
They knew I was listening so they started to give me more simple tasks, things that you would expect the daughter in a house to do (wash the dishes, fold the laundry, turn off the radio) I eventually got back in to my old routine and was talking and listening to people again.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME! it is possible that Bree is really just convinced by the HoO and not brainwashed, and the only time to start talking to her about it is after she has brought herself back into your life. Please don't say anything outright AWFUl about them. Don't say "they aren't real" don't say "they killed your father" don't even say "oh aren't they so silly to think that there is sucha thing as an eternal song?". The point of this period is to let her know some facts she may not have known - I say contact Alex? or maybe try to find Tachyon (someone who can reveal some of the mysteries)- and say things like "did you know that in 1971 Dr. blah blah blah found blah blah and the order was involved?"
Hopefully random facts will get her talking, she'll be ready to talk to you about it, and then you can start using LOGIC NOT EMOTION to get her back to reality. It is important that she does this on her own. If she doesn't, I swear to you you are only brainwashing her more.
That's all.
As a former member of what some people would call a cult, and many others would call a "brainwashing cult", I can't believe that there wasn't more effort put in to understanding what the effects of brainwashing are really like and how brainwashing/deprogramming works.
Deprogramming is NOT a program. In fact, it isn't even a science or a medicinal practice. Deprogramming is brainwashing light - it does not get rid of the brainwashing you have endured, it overrides it and brainwashes you into behaving like you are normal again, but you are actually just adding layers to the gunk piling up in your head.
The only exception to this is when the person voluntarily offers themselves to be "deprogrammed". However, this isn't really deprogramming at all because in these cases the person who needs deprogramming wasn't ever really programmed, just convinced.
It seems to me that Bree is not volunteering for anything and althought she looks as though she is getting better, she is really only creating a new mask to hide her tormented self.
The truth is, the best thing to do for someone who has been "brainwashed" is to treat them like a normal human being.
All of this attention - the force, the fawning all over her, the teasing, the touching -STOP IT! You're making it worse by treating her like she's sick when she KNOWS she isn't. (although she seems to be showing signs that you're brainwashing her into believing that she is and it's starting to override what she is already... oh lord, this is just getting confusing on paper)
If she is not listening - talk about something you don't care if she hears. tell stories in her vacinity, keep the news on, let her stare out that window until she gets bored. My family did what they called the "trash test" when I came home. Every morning, they would ask me to take out the trash. Mostly I wasn't listening, but one day I heard them and decided I might as well fucking do it and I went and took out the damned trash.
They knew I was listening so they started to give me more simple tasks, things that you would expect the daughter in a house to do (wash the dishes, fold the laundry, turn off the radio) I eventually got back in to my old routine and was talking and listening to people again.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME! it is possible that Bree is really just convinced by the HoO and not brainwashed, and the only time to start talking to her about it is after she has brought herself back into your life. Please don't say anything outright AWFUl about them. Don't say "they aren't real" don't say "they killed your father" don't even say "oh aren't they so silly to think that there is sucha thing as an eternal song?". The point of this period is to let her know some facts she may not have known - I say contact Alex? or maybe try to find Tachyon (someone who can reveal some of the mysteries)- and say things like "did you know that in 1971 Dr. blah blah blah found blah blah and the order was involved?"
Hopefully random facts will get her talking, she'll be ready to talk to you about it, and then you can start using LOGIC NOT EMOTION to get her back to reality. It is important that she does this on her own. If she doesn't, I swear to you you are only brainwashing her more.
That's all.
Ok, good selections. Just try to make sure that you stay really close to her the whole time and try to keep physical contact as much as possible eg. arm around her, hold her hand, sit close. That way she knows that you are not going anywhere and that she can depend on you (This is probably late to get to you, but mabey it can help anyway)
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tazman2087
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FeministPsych
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Jonas,
I just saw Beast's most recent video. I don't agree with him at all. I don't think you are taking advantage of her at all. (at least that is as long as you aren't doing anything farther than we are seeing on film). I think that you are doing a good job of getting Bree to trust you and feel safe. Just try not to treat her "special" all the time. For the most part you need to treat her just as you normally would. She is starting to trust you again so this shouldn't be too hard. I get the impression that you and Bree were emotionally close before this ever happened and that Beast just didn't realize it. It might come as a shock to him and also make him feel a little alienated. I don't think that he is actually jealous of you two but more wanting to protect her, in a big brother sort of sense. And I also thought that his whole, "this isn't about hooking up" line was was way out of line. To me it seems like when he isn't actually trying to help out Bree, that that is all he is going for with Sarah. I am not saying that he doesn't have feelings for her but when we see them together it seems that they are mostly flirting and out for their own good. Mostly I think that you and Daniel should sit down and have a talk. Discuss exactly what you think you should do, and work together. Also it might help if you explain to him the way you feel about Bree. Btw, don't leave Bree alone. Have Sarah sit with her and watch a movie or something. But I do agree about someone should have an eye on her at all times (not necesarily in contact with her, but be able to watch her and be sure of her location). Good luck Jonas, you know that we are always here for you! ~Megan
I just saw Beast's most recent video. I don't agree with him at all. I don't think you are taking advantage of her at all. (at least that is as long as you aren't doing anything farther than we are seeing on film). I think that you are doing a good job of getting Bree to trust you and feel safe. Just try not to treat her "special" all the time. For the most part you need to treat her just as you normally would. She is starting to trust you again so this shouldn't be too hard. I get the impression that you and Bree were emotionally close before this ever happened and that Beast just didn't realize it. It might come as a shock to him and also make him feel a little alienated. I don't think that he is actually jealous of you two but more wanting to protect her, in a big brother sort of sense. And I also thought that his whole, "this isn't about hooking up" line was was way out of line. To me it seems like when he isn't actually trying to help out Bree, that that is all he is going for with Sarah. I am not saying that he doesn't have feelings for her but when we see them together it seems that they are mostly flirting and out for their own good. Mostly I think that you and Daniel should sit down and have a talk. Discuss exactly what you think you should do, and work together. Also it might help if you explain to him the way you feel about Bree. Btw, don't leave Bree alone. Have Sarah sit with her and watch a movie or something. But I do agree about someone should have an eye on her at all times (not necesarily in contact with her, but be able to watch her and be sure of her location). Good luck Jonas, you know that we are always here for you! ~Megan
You can call me Meg, Megan or Megs Or whatever you feel like lol
Or whatever you feel like lol-
tigerlilylynn
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What a good idea Jonas!! I think that little SUBTLE reminders may help her. She reacted not so good with P. Monkey....so mabey she needs more subtle clues to who she really is before you guys give her p. monkey and owen and thor and ect...............
The beautiful moments we shared together
old and now
Don't make me drink this potion
I'll sleep forever
Until I wake under
the glacier ground
old and now
Don't make me drink this potion
I'll sleep forever
Until I wake under
the glacier ground
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Lurker
Keep in mind, Jonas, that taking advantage of someone doesn't require a conscious decision to do so. Be careful that your emotions don't take advantage of both of you.megs229 wrote:Jonas,
I just saw Beast's most recent video. I don't agree with him at all. I don't think you are taking advantage of her at all. (at least that is as long as you aren't doing anything farther than we are seeing on film).
And like tigerlilylynn said, be sure that your emotions don't leave you open to manipulation by Bree either.