Lonelygirl15

there is situationally driven action and there is character driven action.

LG15 has, up till now, been character driven. What little situational setup we've gotten came from Brees choice to not do the ceremony.

We need to see this supposed vast conspiracy fall together. Lets get a look at what exactly there is to fear. We need to see it. Bree suspects it's presense but needs to see it. Daniel DEFINATELY needs to see it.

Something horrifying has to happen to let everyone know what the stakes are. This has been one toothless evil Order so far.

I agree with you, Dreamer. The series has gotten really boring and is no longer intelligently written and played out.

The characters never listen to anyone on the forums, as you pointed out. During the chat, people kept giving Bree advice over and over and she ignored essentially all of it. There was no reason to hold the chat except for Bree and Jonas to converse with each other, which easily could have been done with two videos. The fans had no input whatsoever, although by making a live chat the creators alluded to the fact that we would.

I thought this was a non-traditional form of entertainment. Unfortunately, it's turning more and more traditional. All the actors, of course, have to be beautiful Hollywood-esque people. That part is really starting to bother me. I don't want to watch another teen sitcom. I want something different.

omegawoman wrote:Total disagreement. This series is supposed to be real time. Her parents disappered a little under a month ago. You cannot expect a teenage girl to grow that much under stress in just a little under a month, especially one who has been sheltered as much as Bree has.

This isn't TV- we will not get answers at the end of a 30 minute sitcom. Of course it is slow, IT IS REAL TIME.

Part of the fun of this new form of entertainment is the anticipation of what is happening while we are waiting for a new video. Yes, I do get frustrated at times, but this is all part of the experience.

I've gotta agree here. This is a new medium which encompasses more that just viewing the videos. A major of the "show" experience is the interaction between fans in the forums, interaction between fans and characters both in the forums and in chat, response videos made by fans, and participation in the OpAphid ARG. We are part of the experience. If you simply view this as an online TV show then you are completely missing the whole point (not to mention, most of the show).

'Bree' is a representaton of Innocent Naiveté, which is why we see what she does not. For her to suddenly be shocked into adulthood would be more unbelievable than what we have witnessed so far. Do we really want her to suddenly become “Wonder Woman”?

DreamerM wrote:Omegawoman, you also forget this is fiction.

If fiction in any medium at all, book, movie, tv, whatever, lets it's plot languish aimlessly while the characters bicker and nothing happens, the audience will start getting bored and wander away.

You obviously do not watch daytime soaps. Some of the largest and most rabid fan bases in the history of television - yet the running joke is you can watch one episode every six months and not miss a thing.

Trainer,

Stating "we are the experience" isn't in disagreement with what we're saying. In fact, the entire reason this thread was written was BECAUSE we are part of the experience and want to save this show from nothingness. For you to actually claim those who disagree with you view this as an online TV show is completely absurd and insulting.

(I don't take offense, of course, but I'm just saying.)

'Bree' is a representaton of Innocent Naiveté, which is why we see what she does not. For her to suddenly be shocked into adulthood would be more unbelievable than what we have witnessed so far. Do we really want her to suddenly become “Wonder Woman”?

This is the reason why I suggested that Daniel ditch Bree in order to take action on her behalf, like he did when Bree wasn't speaking to him. This would allow for him to actually be proactive, which is in his character, while still allowing for Bree to be as weak and immature as ever.

The problem with that, however, is that Bree doesn't grow. It's the problem people voiced both here and in that thread.

So maybe she attempts to do so, but then backs out. Daniel goes through with it. Maybe later she can grow enough to actually take some responsibility for the situation she's in by being proactive.

I don't want Bree to be the helpless female victim that needs to be rescued by a man. It'd be great if she could do a little bit of saving herself. Right now, however, her character won't allow for it.

So until then, Daniel needs to step up. IF he doesn't, then he isn't being true to his character.

YOu talked about what Bree represents, but you failed to talk about what Daniel represents. I can tell you that he certainly does NOT represent somebody who just goes home and goes back to school. He's also not somebody who just stays with Bree and does absolutely nothing. He isn't dead weight.

Let him be proactive.

EliCash wrote:For you to actually claim those who disagree with you view this as an online TV show is completely absurd and insulting.

There was an IF at the beginning of the sentence. Check it again. That comment wasn't directed at you, you've provided thoughtful analysis and an interest in delving into the deeper meanings behind the videos. However, it's clear that there are many viewers who do, in fact, view this as a television show and only post to criticize the pace of the story. Those are the people missing out on the full experience.

EliCash wrote:This is the reason why I suggested that Daniel ditch Bree in order to take action on her behalf, like he did when Bree wasn't speaking to him. This would allow for him to actually be proactive, which is in his character, while still allowing for Bree to be as weak and immature as ever.

Don't be surprised if that's exactly what happens.

EliCash wrote:The problem with that, however, is that Bree doesn't grow. It's the problem people voiced both here and in that thread.

So maybe she attempts to do so, but then backs out. Daniel goes through with it. Maybe later she can grow enough to actually take some responsibility for the situation she's in by being proactive.

I don't want Bree to be the helpless female victim that needs to be rescued by a man. It'd be great if she could do a little bit of saving herself. Right now, however, her character won't allow for it.

I get as frustrated with the 'little girl' Bree as much as anyone. But there's a balance that must be maintained. Too many viewers are heavily invested in the "old Bree" and still clamor for the days of frolicking with stuffed animals and nonsensical playfulness. The production has to take those fans into account, whether we think it's realistic to do so or not.

EliCash wrote:So until then, Daniel needs to step up. IF he doesn't, then he isn't being true to his character.

YOu talked about what Bree represents, but you failed to talk about what Daniel represents. I can tell you that he certainly does NOT represent somebody who just goes home and goes back to school. He's also not somebody who just stays with Bree and does absolutely nothing. He isn't dead weight.

Let him be proactive.

This is what I fully expect of Daniel. However, considering that Yousef is leaving they country for the holidays, we may have to wait awhile to see his Rambo side. Until then, I expect Bree to end up at Jonas' place where we will find out what his true motivations are.

Trainer, I just can't stay mad at you.

::hug::

(Basically, we agree.)

trainer101 wrote:Do we really want her to suddenly become “Wonder Woman”?

I do not want her to 'suddenly become' anything. Any sort of sudden change would be BAD character development. You need to set these things up. It all begins with something small and then you build on it. it's called Character Development and the best fiction has it, no exceptions.

Also: "We are the experience?" Bull. I rant and argue about Devil May Cry with my gamer friends but that's not WHY I'm a fan of that series. There is more to a compelling experience then just ranting to people about what SHOULD happen. It's like those sport fanatics who think the outcome of the game changes depending on how much you yell at the screen, except in this case we are yelling at a blank screen.

I wanted to avoid the forums. I am content to simply absorb a facinating story, when I may. I registered and made this thread out of desperation as that story has shot itself in the foot over and over and over again. It is not a GOOD thing that I am here, talking to all of you. This means I am sick of everything, even waiting.

There is no shortage of stuff to talk about online. I don't think of LG15 as nothing more then fodder for forum flame fights.

Also bringing up soap operas is a bad idea. If this becomes a soap I'll never visit this site again. So much for 'revolutionary new art form' if the best they can come up with is daytime-tv-drivel.

Sack the writers. Sack Jonas, he is cute and I wish him all the best but he's story suicide. Hire some people who know what they are doing and get Lucy, a Deacon or someone with actual importance a video blog. It might even be time for the trump card, an appearence by the phantom Cassie. A formal, real appearence, something fans have been waiting for for ages. THAT's how to introduce a character: have the existing characters discussing him/her and give them some framework to step into. Prepair a place for the new people.

I wouldn't be happy seeing action-hero Daniel. He is cabable of real action, but this is not "Danielbeast.com" It's Bree's story, the writers are NOT ditching her, and it's time for HER to start developing and showing us what kind of a person she really is.

Also: "We are the experience?" Bull. I rant and argue about Devil May Cry with my gamer friends but that's not WHY I'm a fan of that series. There is more to a compelling experience then just ranting to people about what SHOULD happen. It's like those sport fanatics who think the outcome of the game changes depending on how much you yell at the screen, except in this case we are yelling at a blank screen.

I disagree, DreamerM.

From a Wired piece about LG:

Beckett tried to explain to the executive that the central theme of online entertainment was interactivity, as opposed to the passivity of television. He wanted to create shows in which the line between reality and fiction is blurred, where viewers can correspond with the characters and actually become involved in the story by posting their own videos. The exec responded by walking them through his fall lineup and pointing out that the network's Web site had great supplemental video material for the season's upcoming shows.

Beckett is clearly frustrated. "The Web isn't just a support system for hit TV shows," he says. "It's a new medium. It requires new storytelling techniques. The way the networks look at the Internet now is like the early days of TV, when announcers would just read radio scripts on camera. It was boring in the same way all this supplemental material is boring."

What's needed, he says, is content that's built specifically for the Web. It doesn't need to be lit like a film -- that would make it feel less real. The camera work should be simple. There shouldn't be a disembodied third-person camera -- a character is always filming the action. Each episode needs to be short, no more than three minutes. "You wouldn't show a sitcom at a movie theater, right?" Beckett says. "You make movies for the big screen, sitcoms for TV, and something else entirely for the Internet. That's the lesson of Lonelygirl15."

This Web series not only looks different, it's made differently than other filmed entertainment. As Bree's universe expands, each new character will have his or her own vlog. Flinders can't write and film them all, so new writer-directors have been hired and paired with actors playing the new characters. Unlike television, where writers sit in a room and come up with a single script, the Lonelygirl15 team comes up with a general plotline and then sends its writer-directors out to produce independent but interconnected videos. All the characters, in essence, have their own show.

The Creators, thankfully, "get it."

DreamerM wrote:

trainer101 wrote:Do we really want her to suddenly become “Wonder Woman”?

I do not want her to 'suddenly become' anything. Any sort of sudden change would be BAD character development. You need to set these things up. It all begins with something small and then you build on it. it's called Character Development and the best fiction has it, no exceptions.

Also: "We are the experience?" Bull. I rant and argue about Devil May Cry with my gamer friends but that's not WHY I'm a fan of that series. There is more to a compelling experience then just ranting to people about what SHOULD happen. It's like those sport fanatics who think the outcome of the game changes depending on how much you yell at the screen, except in this case we are yelling at a blank screen.

I wanted to avoid the forums. I am content to simply absorb a facinating story, when I may. I registered and made this thread out of desperation as that story has shot itself in the foot over and over and over again. It is not a GOOD thing that I am here, talking to all of you. This means I am sick of everything, even waiting.

There is no shortage of stuff to talk about online. I don't think of LG15 as nothing more then fodder for forum flame fights.

Also bringing up soap operas is a bad idea. If this becomes a soap I'll never visit this site again. So much for 'revolutionary new art form' if the best they can come up with is daytime-tv-drivel.

Sack the writers. Sack Jonas, he is cute and I wish him all the best but he's story suicide. Hire some people who know what they are doing and get Lucy, a Deacon or someone with actual importance a video blog. It might even be time for the trump card, an appearence by the phantom Cassie. A formal, real appearence, something fans have been waiting for for ages. THAT's how to introduce a character: have the existing characters discussing him/her and give them some framework to step into. Prepair a place for the new people.

I wouldn't be happy seeing action-hero Daniel. He is cabable of real action, but this is not "Danielbeast.com" It's Bree's story, the writers are NOT ditching her, and it's time for HER to start developing and showing us what kind of a person she really is.

I'm not going to reply to every point here because I already have done so in various other threads. My points are simple - Bree's character will regress before she will progress. The transition is real time - I've known people who curl up into a ball and don't even get out of bed when something in their life goes wrong and stay that way for months (no I'm not suggesting that for the series).
And yes, we are a part of the experience. Just because the story doesn't take the turn that you want it to take, doesn't mean that the story wasn't influenced. I'll say it again, we've been invited to play in their sandbox, but it's still THEIR sandbox.
If you feel that the forums only purpose is to be a platform for ranting - well, I'm not gonna change your mind. It's much more than that to me and to the many, many friends I've made here. To many of us, the videos themselves are only a fraction of the LG experience.

trainer101 wrote: I'm not going to reply to every point here because I already have done so in various other threads.

Not reading other threads. I refuse to get bogged down in a taffy-thick bog of fan speculation. I was into this for the actual Story. Fanatic fans who read tripple meanings into every glance are a different kettle of fish alltogether and as I am not one of them, I'll contain my activities to here until I've said all I want to say.

trainer101 wrote:My points are simple - Bree's character will regress before she will progress. The transition is real time - I've known people who curl up into a ball and don't even get out of bed when something in their life goes wrong and stay that way for months (no I'm not suggesting that for the series).

Good, because if you WERE suggesting that for the series I'd say damn, how boring would that be.

Real time or not, this is FICTION. If you don't entertain your audience, you loose your audience. The chinks in this shows armor are getting more and more painful and I'm starting to hope the creators run out of money soon so they can end it and put us all out of our misery.

Compare the ruins of what it is to what it might of been. Ah, it's tragic to comtemplate.

trainer101 wrote:If you feel that the forums only purpose is to be a platform for ranting - well, I'm not gonna change your mind. It's much more than that to me and to the many, many friends I've made here. To many of us, the videos themselves are only a fraction of the LG experience.

Well, I'm glad you're so easy to satisfy. Are you saying if I made a video-blog fictional story about person who sits there staring into the camera for five minutes, every week, you'd find that a fullfilling experience as long as there were other people to discuss it with?

Sorry. My fandom belongs only to things that are rewarding experiences. I shouldn't have to already belong to a fandom to find something fun.

DreamerM wrote:

trainer101 wrote: I'm not going to reply to every point here because I already have done so in various other threads.

Not reading other threads. I refuse to get bogged down in a taffy-thick bog of fan speculation. I was into this for the actual Story. Fanatic fans who read tripple meanings into every glance are a different kettle of fish alltogether and as I am not one of them, I'll contain my activities to here until I've said all I want to say.

trainer101 wrote:My points are simple - Bree's character will regress before she will progress. The transition is real time - I've known people who curl up into a ball and don't even get out of bed when something in their life goes wrong and stay that way for months (no I'm not suggesting that for the series).

Good, because if you WERE suggesting that for the series I'd say damn, how boring would that be.

Real time or not, this is FICTION. If you don't entertain your audience, you loose your audience. The chinks in this shows armor are getting more and more painful and I'm starting to hope the creators run out of money soon so they can end it and put us all out of our misery.

Compare the ruins of what it is to what it might of been. Ah, it's tragic to comtemplate.

trainer101 wrote:If you feel that the forums only purpose is to be a platform for ranting - well, I'm not gonna change your mind. It's much more than that to me and to the many, many friends I've made here. To many of us, the videos themselves are only a fraction of the LG experience.

Well, I'm glad you're so easy to satisfy. Are you saying if I made a video-blog fictional story about person who sits there staring into the camera for five minutes, every week, you'd find that a fullfilling experience as long as there were other people to discuss it with?

Sorry. My fandom belongs only to things that are rewarding experiences. I shouldn't have to already belong to a fandom to find something fun.

I'm tempted to say "You've completely missed my point" but then I realized that it's only because you WANT to. If you choose not to become active in all or any of the other parts of the medium, then don't. But realize that all of the things that you view as peripheral are what keep the rest of us involved. They are also the reason the story will never move at the pace you want it to.
Right now there's a bunch of us waiting for the new Tachyon vid for clue to the next drop. All the clues suggest it should happen today so our attention is focused on that piece of the story at the moment.

You say I'm missing the best part. I say you are wasting your time with video fanfiction that gives you the illusion of peering into a deep-sea trench when you're really staring at a puddle.

Can't stand Tacheyon, Ophaid those people. I don't have time to look up runes and playback dialog that might or might not have any relevance to anything that actually happens in the LG15 story.

Greystoke is ok, but only because zombies + guns + New Orleans = Awesome.

I just want a GOOD story. I want a plot worthy of this show's groundbreaking status. That too much to ask?

DreamerM wrote:You say I'm missing the best part. I say you are wasting your time with video fanfiction that gives you the illusion of peering into a deep-sea trench when you're really staring at a puddle.

Can't stand Tacheyon, Ophaid those people. I don't have time to look up runes and playback dialog that might or might not have any relevance to anything that actually happens in the LG15 story.

Greystoke is ok, but only because zombies + guns + New Orleans = Awesome.

I just want a GOOD story. I want a plot worthy of this show's groundbreaking status. That too much to ask?

Of course we're staring at a puddle - from that puddle we create the deep sea trench. It's all an illusion - we all realize that too (believe it or not)
The plot moves too slowly for you yet you don't have time to delve into the other areas of the story...

trainer101 wrote: The plot moves too slowly for you yet you don't have time to delve into the other areas of the story...

Tracheyon is not the story. It is part of the FANDOM's expansion of the story, which is not at all the same thing. Don't bother me with speculation.

If the cannon, by itself, doesn't have enough to keep people's interest and those who are fans are only in it for the forum fighting and the fanfiction then that really is it, it's over and I should have stopped watching long before now because the Creators don't have to do anything but kick back and sit pretty as other people's work creates the illusion that THIER stuff is better then it is.