colbertnationgirl wrote:Bree, don't listen to her. Tachyon made it possible to save Daniel without you having to do the ceremony. Tachyon risked her life to do that for you. You can trust her!
Unfortunately, you forgot by assisting in the rescue of poor DanielBeast and the Damsel in distress is they all went right back to Mr. Jonas moneybags house.
Do you think those of us at the Order are so clueless we haven't tracked his address down yet? Perhaps Tachyon isn't as trustworthy as one would hope.
Let's consider Tachyon's own words, and then look at the situation again.. From the communications between her and Brother, in encrypted in "puzzle" form:
Actions are defining. Action means everything.
So. Action means everything, hm? Think about what we know she's done. Infiltrated an Organization, worked there for months while concealing her true identity, ran like a coward and stole from them, then littered private property all over nothern California. Meanwhile, her partner was on his own "mission", betraying the trust of a (much) younger girl, then when he was found out, he planted a fake body and ran home. Eventually, on Tachyon's orders, he gunned her down in an alley.
Do these sound like trustworthy people, Bree? I don't think so.
Dust on the window
The sun's darkened angle
Write your initials with mine
At this time tomorrow
I'll be just one day closer
One sunset further behind
Oh belle, i couldn't say it better myself. Poor Bree... use your brain dear. IF tachyon cared that much for you, she would have tried to help you a long time ago.
If I have been prejudging the Order, then tell me how to judge you. Remove me from my "ignorance." Do not expect to convince me.
There are a few things that I know, however:
"Free will without rules leads to anarchy." Rules that do not respect free will lead to oppression. You have taken the lives of thousands of girls and forced them into a ceremony. How is that not oppression?
"Why did they kill the father? Where is the body? How do you know he is dead?" You either killed him or made a girl think he was dead and suffer through all the grief of loss. You avoid the real question: why? And ask yourself: Where is Gemma's body? How do you know she is dead?
"Why do they tell us nothing? It would surprise you how well-informed we really are." I'm sorry, I did not type correctly. The "you" was directed at Bree. I am aware that you know much more about the private lives of these people than you should. I was questioning the Order's refusal to tell Bree anything. What do you have to hide? How can you expect Bree to trust you if you tell her nothing?
What do you consider an example of "free will with rules"? Do you have some illusion that your Order maintains the rights of girls like Bree? If you feel I am being ignorant here, then please inform me just how your organization offers rules without oppression.
I know that you are a steadfast supporter of OpAphid. I know that whatever I may argue, you will find the loopholes, and continue to point out the fine points, maintain that "technically" you have not broken the law (which is not true, as you killed Bree's father), and that "technically" people have come to you of their own free will.
Perhaps I fight a losing battle, arguing with you in a formal way. You dictate the rules. Technicalities and loopholes win here. I cannot win this battle with pure facts. You will continue to uphold that your organization upholds all of the values I speak of, when truly any rational and ethical person knows that is not the case. That is why I argue as a human, not a brain.
I bring up the historical references because they are real-life examples of the ethics I speak of. You never said that rebellion is always wrong, but look at your organization. You condemn your rebels. They are rebelling against a society that forced them into a role that endangered their safety. You track them, you kill them or their families. You will not be stopped by any legal means. I know that the following is an extreme example, but it is something like charging that the Allies in World War II were wrong because they killed Nazis. Now, I know that you are not preforming genocide. Still, you are oppressing a wide range of people.
You say that the Constitution has rules, and this is what keeps us from anarchy. That is true. But the Constitution does not enforce rules the way your Order does. The Constitution is a system of government created so that the people can govern themselves. How is OpAphid an example of this? If one of your members speaks out against the Order, they are turned against. How does this relate to the Constitution?
You may not have actually forced Bree to do the ceremony at any given time, but you have certainly harassed her. You have tracked her. You have followed her. You have killed her father. You have held her friend captive (or at least made him incapable of deciding to leave). You tore her world apart. You have emotionally abused her, and it is because she chose not to do your ceremony.
The damage that you have done to Bree, Daniel, and even Jonas and Tachyon is far more pervasive than the demage those people have done to you.
Ethics, morals, and such things do make a difference in the world. That is my one absolute. You have an absolute too. This is your absolute: "Order, and especially our Order, is the absolute rule of all we lay our gaze upon."
You could have let her go. That was all she asked for.
If you can prove me wrong, cure me of my ignorance. Then I can argue against you without being ignorant.
As for Tachyon, context is everything. You take out the context for your propoganda. Put your own actions in the same context you put hers in.
Last edited by Magesa on Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ladron121 wrote:I have no time for such requests. Maybe you would like to attend one of our camps? We have spin art...
Yes, I did go a bit over the top...
Pizza and ice cream and spin art sounds pretty good right now... How could I ever doubt you?
And because you have come to your senses we will allow you to attend with a discounted fee....
*starts talking with a weird, digitally distorted voice* Pizza and ice cream... pizza and ice cream... Sure, I'll throw away all my rights and join the Order... They have a good enough argument to clear my conscience of all these terrible things... pizza and ice cream... pizza and ice cream...
ladron121 wrote:I have no time for such requests. Maybe you would like to attend one of our camps? We have spin art...
Yes, I did go a bit over the top...
Pizza and ice cream and spin art sounds pretty good right now... How could I ever doubt you?
And because you have come to your senses we will allow you to attend with a discounted fee....
*starts talking with a weird, digitally distorted voice* Pizza and ice cream... pizza and ice cream... Sure, I'll throw away all my rights and join the Order... They have a good enough argument to clear my conscience of all these terrible things... pizza and ice cream... pizza and ice cream...
