[DISCUSSION] Censorship

[Danielle]

As I posted in the thread that contains my original post (kinda confusing with all the moves...)

I just want to know why the posts from the young ladies accusing Glenn of untoward behavior has been deleted. This gives the impression of a coverup on the part of the Creators and that Glenn is indeed guilty of something.

If the guy is innocent, what purpose would deleting the posts do other than reinforcing his presumption of guilt????

Because all of those posts were doing just that, presuming his guilt. Thus far I have seen little credible evidence toward why Glenn has been fired, all the forums are full with are allegations and spectulation. I would enjoy knowing where you get 'young ladies' from, thus far only one woman has come forward and she is in her late twenties. The log also shows that not only did Sparkles not ask for the photo, but no arrangements were made.

[curiousGeorge]

You logic is horribly flawed. Deleting posts only gives the impression that something did indeed happen.

Letting the posts stand for review is the way to let people know that things are NOT being covered up. My presumption is that something did happen and that the deletions are the result of some ill fated damage control.

Bad PR and exactly what just got Scooter Libby convicted.

[Languorous Lass]

I am completely flabbergasted that posts that were deemed "off topic" were actually moved to the Rubbish Bin.

When I read this thread, I had just posted in Mintgurl's original thread that I thought it was wrong to create a separate thread that began with George's post providing factual evidence that contradicted one of Jewely's statements. Now I see that the posts (including one of my own, which simply offered to provide information about sexual harassment law) were originally not just spun off, but trashed.

This situation is getting wildly out of hand -- and I'm not talking about the Glenn situation, I'm talking about the actions of the moderators.

I don't know who took the original action (meaning trashing the "off-topic" posts), but whoever it was, I think that mod should step down. His or her actions are inconsistent with those of a fair and impartial moderator.

I also think that the posts that have been deleted outright should be restored, perhaps in a separate thread that is clearly labeled "Speculation" -- labeled, that is, if they genuinely contain only speculation, and don't contain statements concerning the poster's personal experience, or what the person was told by someone who did personally have interchanges with Glenn/the creators/anyone else involved.

The actions of the mod who moved the posts to the Rubbish Bin have undermined, if not outright destroyed, my confidence that the deleted posts actually deserved to be removed from public view.

[ShardinsKitten]

As I posted in the thread that contains my original post (kinda confusing with all the moves...)

I just want to know why the posts from the young ladies accusing Glenn of untoward behavior has been deleted. This gives the impression of a coverup on the part of the Creators and that Glenn is indeed guilty of something.

If the guy is innocent, what purpose would deleting the posts do other than reinforcing his presumption of guilt????

I think that most of us in the forum agree we just want to move forward. If the girls do have any evidence or have something The Creators need to know, they should PM it directly to them. None of us on the board can do anything about it at this point. That is referring to the actions of Glenn. The Creators have asked for any information to be PMed to them, we should respect that.

As for the topic which has nothing to do with Glenn, and I'm confused as to how it turned into him. It is really annoying to sift threw pages of off topic chatter, in any given thread. I think it was stated by a mod somewhere else (I'm not sure which one or where) that if someone makes a completely off topic post it will be deleted, or if it sparked an off topic conversation that had 5 or more replies it would be split into it's own thread.

Either way, I think we need to keep in mind that this is a very large forum, and that the Mods are only human and mistakes are bound to be made. I don't think the posts getting moved/deleted was done with any ill intent. Just with the intent to keep things friendly and on topic. Which has been rough going around here lately, for everyone. Believe me moding a large forum isn't always as easy as it looks, especially in a time where something this upsetting to most people here happens.

Anyways Apo I think you do a great job, you're one of the mods I see around a lot, well posting a lot. Thanks for all your hard work!

[immortal1]

Seeing as no matter how people try to phrase these threads regarding the whole Glenn debacle it automatically turns into a heated debate regarding his supposed actions, I am going to request that this thread be locked.

They were vague in saying what capacity GR might remain so this is going to keep happening until the Creators make another statement clearing that up.

Also you seem to be a repeated lock thread requester. Either we lock all threads regarding the subject all leave them all public. You can't lock threads or move posts criticizing the guy and leave cheerleading threads that support him.

[Ziola]

Seeing as no matter how people try to phrase these threads regarding the whole Glenn debacle it automatically turns into a heated debate regarding his supposed actions, I am going to request that this thread be locked.

They were vague in saying what capacity GR might remain so this is going to keep happening until the Creators make another statement clearing that up.

Also you seem to be a repeated lock thread requester. Either we lock all threads regarding the subject all leave them all public. You can't lock threads or move posts criticizing the guy and leave cheerleading threads that support him.

My post was originally in the "cheerleading" thread. I think we should just step back from all of this for a while. I think that the whole issue needs to be shelved until we hear something from the Creators. Continuing to post threads, be them asking for Glenn's head on a platter or singing his praises only prolongs the issue. My requests to lock these threads are in the hopes that we can all step back and cool down. So yes, my vote is to lock all Glenn related threads right now.

[curiousGeorge]

As my last word (for a bit anyway) I think this situation really demands that the Creators make statements when they have the mods delete whole threads or individual posts regarding Glenn.

I am sure that if they had done a "In the interest of fairness to all involved..." type post before deleting the threads, it would not smack so much as clumsy damage control and that they had something to hide.

Any student of politics will realize that a coverup, perceived or real, is always a much worse affair than the original offense...

Nuff said for now.

[Languorous Lass]

I'm confident that the actions of the mods were not requested or dictated by the creators. In fact, I doubt very much that the creators even knew what happened in the thread. If anyone has information to the contrary, I'd like to hear it. Mods?

[curiousGeorge]

I was referring to the ORIGINAL thread(s) (including a response by the Creators) that have been deleted. I would reference the posters by name and the specific accusations they made regarding Glenn, but the posts have been deleted...

[Languorous Lass]

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. However, I would still like to know if the actions of the mods were requested by the creators.

[immortal1]

Seeing as no matter how people try to phrase these threads regarding the whole Glenn debacle it automatically turns into a heated debate regarding his supposed actions, I am going to request that this thread be locked.

They were vague in saying what capacity GR might remain so this is going to keep happening until the Creators make another statement clearing that up.

Also you seem to be a repeated lock thread requester. Either we lock all threads regarding the subject all leave them all public. You can't lock threads or move posts criticizing the guy and leave cheerleading threads that support him.

My post was originally in the "cheerleading" thread.

Wait you requested both threads locked and they moved your lock request post here?

I think we should just step back from all of this for a while. I think that the whole issue needs to be shelved until we hear something from the Creators. Continuing to post threads, be them asking for Glenn's head on a platter or singing his praises only prolongs the issue. My requests to lock these threads are in the hopes that we can all step back and cool down. So yes, my vote is to lock all Glenn related threads right now.

So actually it ends up we're on the same page, I think all these kinds of threads should be locked until we get an update from the Creators. The bottom line for me is this: the hate threads do no good, we'll never know the truth. It may not be for us to know. He can't get more fired than he already is and I can't see how kicking a guy when he's down helps.
I'm not sure how helpful the support threads are either. I'm trying to imagine in my mind a scenario where he is completely vindicated. Even if every person recanted their accusations the spectre of impropriety would remain and that's enough for him to be a detriment to a PG13 show. The best thing for his career might be to keep a low profile and resurface somewhere else. Trust me, even if all he got was an agent and a resume credit out of the deal he's way ahead of a lot of people in LA.

[trainer101]

Let me make a couple of statements here. Take them for what they are - my view.

1. I did not delete the threads in the OpA section, nor did I receive any request from the Creators or anyone else to do so. Perhaps another mod did, I do not know.

2. Prior to the original OpA discussion threads being locked, both Wintermute and I received private requests to do so. We left the threads open for several more hours to allow people to complete their thoughts, although by that time what remained were a handful of people intent on throwing stones at each other. We both agreed that the threads should be locked at that point because they had deteriorated into shouting matches. The "Moving Forward" thread was intentionally left open to foster discussion about how to best move past the issues.

3. To the best of my knowledge only one person has stepped forward and claimed to have had any conversation with Glenn regarding the exchange of pics. Others have been alluded to but those people have vehemently denied that any such conversations ever took place. I am inclined to take these people at their word. Anything past that is speculation about something which seems likely to not have happened.

Regards,
Trainer

[Ziola]

Wait you requested both threads locked and they moved your lock request post here?



So actually it ends up we're on the same page, I think all these kinds of threads should be locked until we get an update from the Creators. The bottom line for me is this: the hate threads do no good, we'll never know the truth. It may not be for us to know. He can't get more fired than he already is and I can't see how kicking a guy when he's down helps.
I'm not sure how helpful the support threads are either. I'm trying to imagine in my mind a scenario where he is completely vindicated. Even if every person recanted their accusations the spectre of impropriety would remain and that's enough for him to be a detriment to a PG13 show. The best thing for his career might be to keep a low profile and resurface somewhere else. Trust me, even if all he got was an agent and a resume credit out of the deal he's way ahead of a lot of people in LA.

I originally posted in the Discussion thread started by Mintgurl asking for the thread to be locked before it turned into another heated argument. Then, my post got sent to the rubbish bin, then it was returned although to a brand new thread.

I know, pretty confusing. I'm still not sure where the hell I am right now.

I just think we should cease and desist with all this Glenn talk, supportive or otherwise, until we hear more from the Creators.

[Broken Kid]

I think there was some misunderstanding here. If a moderator splits a thread up, they should explain why and should not move it to the Rubbish Bin (save some rare instances, such as when it's inappropriate conversation between a small number of people, and those people would be contacted). As far as I and the other mods are aware, the Creators have not deleted posts, and moderators have not either. I don't believe this was intended for the Rubbish Bin and was not meant to be censorship.

I think the intention here is to keep the "taking sides" and claims here to a minimum. I understand that people do feel a need to discuss Glenn's contributions (either to the series itself or the recent situation). But I wholeheartedly encourage people to withhold throwing out blame or accusations. That is why threads in the OpAphid area have been locked. A discussion of his contributions to the series by video and by story is wholeheartedly appropriate - whether you appreciate it or not.

[Languorous Lass]

I don't believe this was intended for the Rubbish Bin and was not meant to be censorship.

BK, your statement is inconsistent with statements earlier in this thread. Could we hear from whoever split the thread, whether directly or not, about whether the posts were intentionally moved to the Rubbish Bin or whether that was an error? I don't need to know the name of the mod who took the action -- I would just like to know whether the action was deliberate. If it was, I think that mod should step down. If it was accidental, I'd like to know that too.