Do they need 12? Quite Possibly! Possible Locations(Updates)

[TheeBerean]

We're getting ahead of ourselves, though. We still don't know that they need 12, or even more than one. Has Bree weighed in on this at all as to what she thinks?

In the thread, "Bree I think Jules isn't the new girl.", on April 26, Bree made the statement:

THANK YOU!! All of your research is amazing. I have no idea if it's one girl they need or 12. Any new bit info helps.

http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic ... ht=#326438

~t.b.

[XIIVI]

Regardless of all the new information, we need to keep digging and researching.

Lets keep up the good work and brainstorming.


I may have more research to post later tonight.

[XIIVI]

I have somewhat figured out the number 9.

http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterOne/Tra ... nderah.htm


"The eight captives inside the large disk represent eight (actually 9 but traditionally seen as being 8.) that could form the left-hand half of Capricornus. These figures do stand for the glyphic symbol of enemies or wickedness. These are Decan stars and the glyphs say Sa-r-a or a-r-sa, the figure to the right is also named sa-r-a (possible an indicator of epithet, title or a piece of time)."


Researching this more currently. Will post info as found.

[Susan]

I've been wondering on an Aquarian level what the significance of the HoO is. We know it is in part the recruitment end of the Order, but what beyond that keeps the Order complicating the HoO's dogma?

We have been calling it just the Order, but in fact does that not represent the Order of Denderah? It is possible that this is, in fact, a religious organization itself. We haven't spoken much about their actual makeup beyond some hazy "they're evil" kind of statement.

The research you've been doing on the Zodiac, XIIVI (and may I take this moment to say, "Good Job!"), might actually have more to do with the parent organization than to HoO.

Mincartaugh (still)

[marlasinger]

We're all hazy as to the *definition* of the "ORDER" to begin with - and I think Bree is just as in the dark as we are.

As for the 12, 16, and 9...you guys are frickin' awesome. Keep up this research; it's going to lead somewhere, i'm sure of it.

also: nice to see another incredibly curious Aquarian! ^_^ I'm so typical of my sign. gotta know gotta know gotta know!

[XIIVI]

The research you've been doing on the Zodiac, XIIVI (and may I take this moment to say, "Good Job!"), might actually have more to do with the parent organization than to HoO.

Appreciated, Susan.


My research makes me who I am, and for it to be appreciated is the greatest compliment anyone can pay me.

[XIIVI]

More on the number 9 and relevance to Capricornus (Capricorn).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capricornus

Some interesting information regarding the constellation. Most notable is the comments about "beliefs that sin accumulated throughout the year, causing the darkness to increase, together with the sun's descent and pause at the Solstice, the ancient Greeks referred to this area of sky as the Augean Stable, where they considered the sun stabled during the year.".

(Kind of a cleansing/renewal ceremony associated with this constellation?)

This could be a "reason" for the ceremony in the first place, or could just be coincidental. Until we know more, or discover more about the actual "ceremony" this is only a possibility. Far stretch, I would imagine, but all potentials must be explored and considered.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... on_map.png


In the above url image of the constellation there is 9 stars that make up the "main" body of it. Numerical coincidence? Maybe. Worth pondering? Definitely.....

[Esteed]

It's entirely possible they need 12. If this "ceremony" is designed to cause a large scale change, it's probably pretty likely that they need 12. In most systems of magic(sometimes spelled with a k, but there are a ton of pretentious posers that spell it like that so I try to stay away from that spelling) the will to bring whatever change you're working into being is the important thing. It doesn't matter that much what ritual you do. Ritual is, in essence, a tool to aid in focusing the will of the practitioner. If one reaches the true upper echelons of experience (the echelons that are, I'm fairly sure, purely mythical and impossible to reach) they allegedly no longer need tools at all, instead being able to focus their will however they choose.

In that way, the rituals of a Greek pagan and Norse pagan may differ, but accomplish the same thing. The ritual is symbolism. The ritual is aid in your focus and concentration. Magic(k) doesn't work merely because the proper ritual is performed. If that were the case, any old Joe Shmoe could do it. You have to believe in it, and most importantly, you must believe the change you are attempting to work will come about. It isn't enough merely to believe in magic(k). If you have no confidence in your ability to use it, then your belief in it doesn't do any good at all.

So what I'm saying is, they probably do need multiple girls to work whatever change they intend to work, assuming it's large scale. While theoretically a single practitioner should be able to do anything him/herself with enough willpower, the human mind has it's limits. More girls means more will directed towards the same thing. The problem? Depending on how structured the HoO is, each girl may be performing a different ritual. Oh, it's still aimed at the same goal, but local branches of HoO/The Order might have slightly different belief systems that shape the performance of the ceremony.

Just a thought.

[Susan]

The ritual is symbolism. The ritual is aid in your focus and concentration. Magic(k) doesn't work merely because the proper ritual is performed. If that were the case, any old Joe Shmoe could do it. You have to believe in it, and most importantly, you must believe the change you are attempting to work will come about. It isn't enough merely to believe in magic(k). If you have no confidence in your ability to use it, then your belief in it doesn't do any good at all.

Thus the insistance on Free Will. That would make Bree the practicioner, not the sacrifice. Is it possible we should be looking into that too? It would change the concept of Bree as sacrificial meat. It would also make running from the ceremony seem foolish. Don't you think?

So what I'm saying is, they probably do need multiple girls to work whatever change they intend to work, assuming it's large scale. While theoretically a single practitioner should be able to do anything him/herself with enough willpower, the human mind has it's limits. More girls means more will directed towards the same thing. The problem? Depending on how structured the HoO is, each girl may be performing a different ritual. Oh, it's still aimed at the same goal, but local branches of HoO/The Order might have slightly different belief systems that shape the performance of the ceremony.

Following this route seems unsatisfying to me. Single girls or multiple girls, as practitioners they would need to know a lot more about what is happening than these girls are being taught. I think we may need to look at a more fringe concept that can be provided by Wiccan ritual and Magic.

[Esteed]

Ah, but you're forgetting, fiction often portrays occult truths incorrectly. And, technically, one does not need to know a whole lot. One merely needs to believe that the ritual will accomplish what the higher ups tell them it will. They don't have to know what each word means if someone has already told them what they mean. That's the rub, man. These girls only get their information from HoO, which means from the Order. Do you think they're being up front with the girls about what's really going on?

[LucaSambuca]

A Hint

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78YiAkP1aAM

[XIIVI]

SEE BEGINNING POSTS FOR UPDATED INFORMATION

[XIIVI]

Any help with the last 3 girls, and finding the "replacement", if any, for Maddison would be appreciated

[iampenguin]

This thread actually reminded me of this really old story I heard when I was a kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Dancing_Princesses

Twelve princesses with a secret to hide...I dunno, kind of hits close to home, neh?

[XIIVI]

It would seem now our priority should be where, not how many and who. Where are likely locations for the "ceremony"?