On the Jumping of Sharks--What LG15 is Doing Wrong

[Lurker]

The rest: The he had money, twinkie, comic book debacle. How could Daniel allow his one true love to eat from a dumpster when he had a pocket full of cash!

We don't know that he had a pocket full of cash. A single twinkie could have been a quarter. Comics (depending on the comic) range from a couple of bucks to three and a half dollars (or more if you're buying from Marvel; jerks).

At that point, Daniel was going home and wouldn't have to worry about reserve money for an actual emergency. To answer your question, I'll proffer another question: "How could Daniel not hang onto a little bit of money in the event that his one true love was in danger of starving to death and the only way to save her without taking her to the hospital -- and, possibly, the notice of the Order -- was to go into a gas station and buy something? Meaning: get some food without shoplifting and getting himself arrested (which would have meant Bree'd be left to die)?"

I for one would not have spent every last penny I had before looking to alternative means of finding stuff. Besides, as others have pointed out in other threads, you can find some good stuff in dumpsters. Bree and Daniel just weren't looking in good ones apparently.

P.S. Of course, I get the symbolism of the twinkies purchase but am lost as to the meaning behind the comic book. Perhaps someone can help me out here?

Depends on what the comic book was. Right now we're trying to find out if it was something by Brian Vaughn. There's been quite a few references to comics by him (from Tachyon apparently), and the LG15 storyline bears a significant resemblance to plot elements of Vaughn's Runaways.


By the way, before they get pushed back too much further, I want to try to call everyone's attention back to the comic books and see if we can learn something more on that. Someone mentioned that Daniel mentions his favorite comics on his MySpace profile (I assume they meant the actor, Yousef). Since you can only see his profile if he's friended you, could someone who's got access tell us what those comics are?

Also, if you haven't already, please read about this matter and offer your input. It may have significant implications for the interactive aspect of the series. At the very least, it might give us the opportunity to see an alternate vision of the "Your Decision" video (if there is one). Please voice your opinion if you'd be interested. Maybe I should make a thread for that.

Edit: I've gone ahead and made a thread about it. If you're interested in asking the Creators if there's an alternate vid or are interested in seeing one, please post there. The better we compile such requests, the better idea they'll have as to how much we'd like to know or see.

[DreamerM]

hmmmm......

Lurker, good for you on figuring out that there may be two videos. I'm not entirely conviced I have to admit, given that everything was set up to end with Bree going to Jonas's. I have a hard time believing they had seriously prepaired for a different outcome.

One thing I can promise, if there is another video, we will never see it. Continuity problems mean it can't be relesed as a part of the story, plus there is the danger of the fandom thinking the other ending has better dramatic potential and is more interesting and whinning about how iritating it is the outcome they got was so predictable.

And to be honest, that Yousef got a haircut doesn't really prove anything besides....that he got a haircut sometime before this latest video was made. It doesn't really infer two videos.

[nobackspacebutton]

One thing I can promise, if there is another video, we will never see it. Continuity problems mean it can't be relesed as a part of the story, plus there is the danger of the fandom thinking the other ending has better dramatic potential and is more interesting and whinning about how iritating it is the outcome they got was so predictable.

Maybe they can sell it in the LG store!

[Lurker]

One thing I can promise, if there is another video, we will never see it. Continuity problems mean it can't be relesed as a part of the story, plus there is the danger of the fandom thinking the other ending has better dramatic potential and is more interesting and whinning about how iritating it is the outcome they got was so predictable.

Maybe they can sell it in the LG store!

A DVD extra maybe?

hmmmm......

Lurker, good for you on figuring out that there may be two videos. I'm not entirely conviced I have to admit, given that everything was set up to end with Bree going to Jonas's. I have a hard time believing they had seriously prepaired for a different outcome.

I agree that this outcome was definite, but I can't help but wonder if they really didn't acknowledge that it might have gone another way.

And to be honest, that Yousef got a haircut doesn't really prove anything besides....that he got a haircut sometime before this latest video was made. It doesn't really infer two videos.

I may not have been clear enough. Sorry.

What I mean to say is that it either means Bree was going to Jonas' without Daniel no matter what was decided here (with him specifically ignoring the decision of the forum), or they prepared for something different.

I understand what you're saying, though, with not presenting the video to us (if there's an alternate) the way they have everything else. It would have to be a different presentation than the usual way, and it would certainly have to be well after the plot's moved beyond the immediate results of the video that was shown.

[AGuyNamedJoe]

P.S. Of course, I get the symbolism of the twinkies purchase but am lost as to the meaning behind the comic book. Perhaps someone can help me out here?

Depends on what the comic book was.

Lurker, thank you. I now understand the significance of the comic book. It all just clicked because of something in your post.

The comic book represents Daniel's faith in the Universe to provide abundance. You are far away from home, almost broke, you don't have any idea how you will get home or how long it will take you. To prove your faith, you waste (as it would appear) your last cent on a comic book. It is as if Daniel is raising his middle finger to the plight he finds himself in because he knows all will work out. It is a gesture of the spirit, not of the mind.

Now, what is the lesson Old Dude Walter has to teach Daniel. On a spiritual journey, you don't just bump into people for no reason.

[DreamerM]

There is no doubt in my mind that the event was completely NON-interactive. The chat went one way. The poll went one way. It's lame.

I don't think Daniel got a haircut. I think Yousef got a haircut. They insert a segment into a video about Daniel getting a haircut to explain it away. If they'd still been living in the ally, then Daniel would explain that he found some sissors and cut his hair in an effort to feel less dirty.

It doesn't really mean much.

[Lurker]

P.S. Of course, I get the symbolism of the twinkies purchase but am lost as to the meaning behind the comic book. Perhaps someone can help me out here?

Depends on what the comic book was.

Lurker, thank you. I now understand the significance of the comic book. It all just clicked because of something in your post.

Well, I'm glad you got something out of what I said. What you said does sound like it has some merit, really, but I'd like to know if there's more we should be looking into with the whole comic book angle. I'd really like to know which comic book he bought (and which ones he might have listed on MySpace).

I don't think Daniel got a haircut. I think Yousef got a haircut. They insert a segment into a video about Daniel getting a haircut to explain it away.

Right, but the relevant thing here is not what it means to the fictional world. I'm talking about this solely from the angle of the real world, particularly the interactive thing. You just said that you don't think there was any interactive element to the poll whatsoever. That's partly what we're digging for here. If there was no other video filmed in case the poll or Holly went a different way with the Jonas decision, then you'd be absolutely correct.

Even the small level of interaction that EliCash suggested previously (Daniel's reaction to the "forum's decision") would not have been actual interaction. That's why I think it's important that we know if there was another video.

That, and I'd like to see it if there is one. But most importantly, that would confirm for us if the poll had even as much relevance as the Nov. 28 chat.

[DreamerM]

Ok I just gotta say something:

This latest video, Jonas's video....

....was great.

First of, it awknowledged Tacheyon's video, meaning Ophaid is not just the "official game" it means the characters themselves are canonical.

......which gives me fantasies of "gemma" uploading a new video...but this video is of a different woman, she teases about how "someone's eaten the biscuits again" says some codeystuff and closes with "Tag, your it."

And thus we'd get our first view of Tachyon, who is without a doubt the most badass character in the Breeverse. This woman's amazing. She has courage like you wouldn't believe. She's capable of breaking into even the most high-security facilities, producing and editing incredibly elaborate clue videos while always staying one step ahead of the seemingly world-wide organization that is chasing her. And she does it all with a smirk, an undaunted spirit, and a wry sense of humor. She makes it look easy.

The day when we finally get a good look at this most badass of superspies (preferably after she has JUST done something awesome like broken into the heart of thier complex and hijacked thier system just to show she can) is the day I will go around in a happy daze talking about how much this show rocks.

Jonas went from annoying and pointless to sympathetic just in this one video. I'm certain he's not evil now (yes, he could be lying, but I don't think he is), and it's fun seeing his bubbly carefree personality evaporate as he confronts this different, forgein, and alarming situation.

Gemma is a much better turncoat then he'd ever be (remember how conviced we were that he was evil?) If she's been playing them all from the start, then this show has more brains then I gave it credit for.

Explains the artificiality of Gemma's videos too. Really. No one talks about bad dates while someone they care about is living on the streets.

Come on. Really.

[Lurker]

...Tachyon, who is without a doubt the most badass character in the Breeverse. This woman's amazing. She has courage like you wouldn't believe. She's capable of breaking into even the most high-security facilities, producing and editing incredibly elaborate clue videos while always staying one step ahead of the seemingly world-wide organization that is chasing her. And she does it all with a smirk, an undaunted spirit, and a wry sense of humor. She makes it look easy.

The day when we finally get a good look at this most badass of superspies (preferably after she has JUST done something awesome like broken into the heart of thier complex and hijacked thier system just to show she can) is the day I will go around in a happy daze talking about how much this show rocks.

I agree with all of that. Tachyon does kick ass. Daniel's still my favorite, of course, but in plain terms of bad-ass Tachyon trumps him. Dan infiltrated Lucy's apartment when nobody was home. Tachyon apparently not only infiltrated the ranks of the Order, stole crap right out from under their nose, and then left without being captured, but is seemingly avoiding surveilance while watching the Order herself. Daniel should take some spying lessons from her.

Jonas went from annoying and pointless to sympathetic just in this one video. I'm certain he's not evil now (yes, he could be lying, but I don't think he is), and it's fun seeing his bubbly carefree personality buckle down and try to figure this out.

This is good character development. Take a rich guy who exists in a happy bubble and insert a forgein element. Now he is more serious. Now he is trying to figure out what to do.

I still don't trust him, but time will tell.

[DreamerM]

Daniel should take some spying lessons from her.

Heck, James Bond should take some spying lessons from her! She can stare down incredible odds fearlessly. She concocts elaborate codes and elludes detection. She has l33t haxorz skillz and knows the difference between "rolling and shooting" meaning she's probably a combat ace too. Plus she's a good enough actress to convince Ophaid to let her into the bowels of the organization, where she could effectively screw them all over.

If you'd asked me who was gonna be the turncoat, gemma or Jonas, I'd say Jonas was the more obvious choice, but Gemma would be cooler.

Well, Gemma is officially the turncoat. That rocks.

Meaning Jonas is clean. If HE was working for the order, the order would have Bree right now, meaning Lucy and Gemma would be a bit too busy to strut around in front of Tachyon's camera.

This is the same response I have for people who go "Oh, Daniel could be a deacon!" If Daniel was affiliated with the order, Bree would still be doing the ceremony. Duh.

Someone earlier said Daniel should drop bree off at Jonas's and then go investigate the Order.

Well, Daniel's ditched Bree. And the person investigating the order is much, MUCH cooler AND more effective then Daniel.

Here's for a bigger role for Tachyon! Cheers!

[Lurker]

If you'd asked me who was gonna be the turncoat, gemma or Jonas, I'd say Jonas was the more obvious choice, but Gemma would be cooler.

Well, Gemma is officially the turncoat. That rocks.

Well, we still don't know enough yet to be sure.

Meaning Jonas is clean. If HE was working for the order, the order would have Bree right now, meaning Lucy and Gemma would be a bit too busy to strut around in front of Tachyon's camera.

Well, how do we know they don't have her? Jonas hasn't proven to us that Bree's even at his house. Or that he doesn't have her locked up.

For all we know at the moment, Gemma and Lucy were on the way to Jonas'.

Here's for a bigger role for Tachyon! Cheers!

Yeah, that would be cool. Hopefully before it's over we'll see her make an appearance in front of the camera.


Anyway, this discussion has made me realize that somebody's got to be a bad guy in all of this: either Gemma or Jonas. There's a lot of us who want to believe in one or the other, and for a variety of reasons, but if one of them's not a bad guy, then we might have too many good guys. And with Tachyon on the good side, the bad guys need all the help they can get anyway.

[lesbrent]

I thought we could watch and enjoy the story without playing the ARG or watching Tackie and Opy videos?

Sure doesn't seem that way if you read the posts above me.

Scratches head. Another falsehood?

Everyone seems to be on the bandwagon to leave Daniel at home and put up with this goofball Jonas? So now Jonas is the true hero? We will see Bree soon flirting with Jonas and Daniel will become a distant memory? And people think that's ok?

(yes, I asked a lot of questions)

[redbear]

Are some things going wrong? Yes. Are many more things going well? Hell yes! This is a GAME of involvement. If you want something to happen, make it happen. Speculate, investigate, solve anagrams, chat and try to get as involved as you can. This is a very new kind of entertainment, and the focus is on US. Bree and Gemma and especially Daniel are VERY ameture actors. The writers are probably also the producers and creators. When you think that they are filtering through litterally thousands of years occult history to try to find allusions for the plot, and simultaniously finding songs with numbers in the titles that add up to a phone number that we, the "viewer" perticipant cna call and interact with from across the country... I think you need to look at the whole concept, and not just on the decidedly weak acting and slow progression.
Not ragging on your position, as I agree, something should happen. just asking you to understand what YOUR role in this creative process is.

[Lurker]

I thought we could watch and enjoy the story without playing the ARG or watching Tackie and Opy videos?

Sure doesn't seem that way if you read the posts above me.

Scratches head. Another falsehood?

Everyone seems to be on the bandwagon to leave Daniel at home and put up with this goofball Jonas? So now Jonas is the true hero? We will see Bree soon flirting with Jonas and Daniel will become a distant memory? And people think that's ok?

Absolutely not. As I've said many times, I dislike Jonas and I agreed with you recently when you said you'd give up on LG15 if Daniel was taken out of the picture. I don't think that will happen, though. The Creators know a lot of the fans love Daniel. He's a better character than Bree as far as that goes (in my opinion, anyway), but the two of them together make for a great bit of interaction.

[redbear]

Jonas will definitely be the bad guy. NO DOUBT. Daniel will be back.