Flame Wars

[Taig]

why I am sure I do not know what you mean!

[trainer101]

Hello.... Hello.... Hello....

Wow, two and a half hours without even a spark - Sweet!

I think I'll lay out my mat and meditate in here for a while.

*Key the Gregorian Chant music please*
ummmmmmmm..... ummmmmmm.....


(And yes, it does help to vent on occassion - don't think no one is paying attention, we are)

[FallingIntoSin]

Hello.... Hello.... Hello....

Wow, two and a half hours without even a spark - Sweet!

I think I'll lay out my mat and meditate in here for a while.

*Key the Gregorian Chant music please*
ummmmmmmm..... ummmmmmm.....


(And yes, it does help to vent on occassion - don't think no one is paying attention, we are)

*SPARK*

Just kidding

I've put away my gasoline!

Edit: Sooo. I wrote the above BEFORE I read this whole flippin' thread and yet I still am going to put away my gasoline...though I have a very *cough* nice post written in my head about exactly what I think about this thread and how things are handled.

/me waits for her Gold Star, por favor, gracias

[Ziola]

/me gives falling a great big gold star

[Marbella]

Ziola, I will have to admit that I agree!

[Marbella]

My only comment on this topic is that when a thread gets locked, people may still communicate via PM or IM. They also will have the option of the chat (once it gets fixed.)

Sometimes, threads are locked because they are inappropriate to begin with. It is not always because someone's feelings got hurt.

Thanks,
Marbella

[trainer101]

Sooo. I wrote the above BEFORE I read this whole flippin' thread and yet I still am going to put away my gasoline...though I have a very *cough* nice post written in my head about exactly what I think about this thread and how things are handled.

/me waits for her Gold Star, por favor, gracias

I started to meditate and fell asleep in here. Thanks to everyone for not waking me up!

[gogo]

This post is simply to support those who are trying to find ways to discuss flame wars and different people's perceptions of innapropriate comments in order for this forum to be an engaging and worthwhile place to share ideas.

The excerpt of 1965 hit that I have included in the link below is dedicated to those who need to take a short break, face the harshness of reality, then get back to the discussion of how to approach flame wars…

Window’s Media Player is needed to hear this timeless and inspiring classic. It really make you think…

The hardcore lyrics can be found here.

[Broken Kid]

Please...this thread is difficult enough when it's on topic. Don't get off topic. Take off-topic conversations to PM. Thanks.

[gogo]

Sorry. BK I do have to say that I am impressed that people want to discuss the issue of flame wars, how to avoid them and be reasonable on this board.

I know that some people have a hard time letting things go, and some people are more opinionated than others. I guess it just comes down to what people want from this board. I don't see anything wrong with disagreeing with people tactfully and politely. Avoiding unnecessary conflicts is one of my personal rules. (But everyone is different.)

I don't really see anything that has to do with this series, the ARG and any other part of this lg15 world that is so serious that people need to fight about things. This should be fun, not painful. And debating is a good thing, as long as people aren't hurt in the process. I hate to see people needlessly upset from hurt feelings. I am just a sensitive person, so I can understand why hurt feeling matter. Hopefully, by working toward some of the suggestion brought up here, this can be a place where people feel comfortable sharing their ideas and stating their opinions in thoughtful ways. Preachy and simplistic, I know, but I guess this is just how I see things...

[Broken Kid]

I split out the conversation around the star issue. As I stated there, I don't believe AutoPilate intended any harm by this. However, there are some issues that are justifiably sensitive that jokes, no matter how innocuously intended, are not appropriate. Especially in a forum with people of all ages and ethnicities from all over the world. So let's please keep this back on topic.

[Kasdeja]

Let's get down to brass tacks. This is the complaint, concern area. Now, we've all stayed reasonably civil in this discussion...and my question is, is anything positive going to come of this...or are we going to replay the flame debate in a couple months, again? I think there have been a lot of suggestions, here. Some good, some bad, etc. Maybe we need to look back and summarize the suggestions to better improve the site, communication, etc...and see if there are any that we can have implemented?

[Luminous]

Good morining all. Hope you had a nice meditation Trainer.

Excuse me, I'm afraid this post might get a bit longish.

As I've mentioned before, I am new to forums, so there is much here that I don't understand. One thing that is new to me is the term "Troll". I asked for a definition yesterday, because I would like to know what it means to be a troll, so I can avoid inadvertantly being one.

Someone responded to me in PM with this definition:

A troll in forum terms is someone who deliberately provokes argument for whatever reason. Trolls will post something unwarranted and offensive simply to get a rise out of people. The goal of the troll is to be flamed.

I can certainly understand how this is not a useful behavior on this board.

Unfortunately, it seems this definition has been expanded to mean anyone who offers feedback about things they would like to see change. It also seems to apply to people who stand up for themselves when they have been offended, or stand up for other people they feel are being harrassed.

To be unable to speak one's mind on issues such as these, in my opinion makes for a very unhealthy environment that has no hope for longevity.

While I understand it isn't good to disrupt discussion threads when issues arise, I do feel it's extremely critical that there be a place where issues can be brought, discussed and worked through even if they get very heated. In my mind, this is not trolling, it is conflict resolution. If the conflicts cannot be addressed, they will never be resolved.

Fortunately we have the concerns and complaints section, where these issues can be brought, hashed out and hopefully, eventually resolved. I think it is important to have a place where we can all speak our minds, vent our spleens about whatever is bothering us without being considered a troll. This is how many new and wonderful ideas are born.

The important thing, I think, is that a single person or group of people don't end up dominating. That everyone has the opportunity to be heard.

And gogo, thank you for the link to that silly song. It gave me a giggle

[AutoPilate]

If the conflicts cannot be addressed, they will never be resolved.

This is the most insightful post I've read all day. Thanks.

[silvermoon]

I've avoided adding my two cents in here, but finally felt compelled to do so about a couple of points.

I try pretty hard to avoid flame wars, though I do have a sarcastic sense of humor and have been misunderstood a couple of times. When that happens, I have tried to go back and explain that I meant no offense and "kiss and make up" with the person I've offended. I have also only started one "complaint" thread, about a certain word being used (and, admittedly, I did ask for that thread to be locked, because a few people came down REALLY hard on me about it, and I realized the futility of trying to make them understand my point).

I say that because I want to make the point that I do not consider myself a "complainer" or a "flame war starter".

That said, I do think that there is a problem on this forum, with both people being too "rough" on others and, occiasionally with some of the moderators abusing their power. I've seen certain ones call members names, openly take other members side over other members, ignore people being openly harrassed without putting a stop to it... not what moderators are really supposed to do, IMHO.


I used to run a very busy forum. As the admin, I barely posted and I kept myself somewhat apart from the "masses", because once you really get involved with certain members, it's easy to take sides with people you are friendly with -- it's just human nature. Anyone I appointed as a moderator was picked specifically for their neutral nature and level heads, not because they had a high post count.

I think part of the problem on this forum is that it seems like the mods have sometimes been selected via "popularity contests" so to speak. Those who are really active posting and are very popular. I truly believe that people make better mods when they are more lurking than posting, or are not in a "click". They can keep from taking sides.

I would like to give kudos to Trainer, who, from what I've seen, is one of the best mods around. His ability to subtley slide a thread back onto track without insulting anyone is amazing.

I also believe that there should be a penalty for exteme flaming. No one should be allowed to personally harrass another member and call them names. Yes, this is a little society all it's own. But every society has rules and penalties for breaking them. You can't go chasing someone around calling them an a-hole without getting into trouble -- not in school, at work, or on the street. Why should it be okay here?

Every forum that I've either moderated or participated had specific rules and penalties for breaking them. Moderators who broke them had their "powers" revoked and became regular members.

It is true. This forum has a horrible reputation for anarchy on other boards. People avoid coming here or avoid posting for fear of being beaten up on.

If it's left like this, eventually more and more people are going to leave. This site has such potential to be a great place to participate and welcome new fans. It's a shame that a few bad apples (both members and mods) are allowed to ruin it for the rest of us.

Edit to add: I think it would be helpful to have a mod spend more time specifically on the complaints and concerns board. I think people come here hoping to have their problems addressed by an admin/mod but are just basically getting tore into by other members and never be addressed by anyone who could actually help with it. I know the one time I brought up something, the only time anyone in power spent any time with my concern was to lock the thread after I PMed them asking them to do so.