Lonelygirl15

Lurker wrote:

JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote:does this mean jonas could have shot the guy? bree's dad?

What?

I think she means because Jonas has a gun and what not. But I don't think Jonas shot Bree's dad lol.

watching_watchers wrote:

CRYISME wrote:

watching_watchers wrote:I want a new video, I'm so anxious. >.<

Amen to that.

BLAH. =[ Maybe if we give up and go to the orders side a new one will come up.

But then we would just get pissed off when DBJ do something good. I guess we just need to learn how to wait

ok waiting sucks

CaptainAwesome wrote:The lack of Jessica Rose is becoming is OBVIOUS now. She's obviously only doing this show when she can fit it in now. Things have changed, she's doing movies now. She's a star. And, unfortunately, she is no longer the star of her own show.

QFT

CRYISME wrote:

watching_watchers wrote:

CRYISME wrote:

watching_watchers wrote:I want a new video, I'm so anxious. >.<

Amen to that.

BLAH. =[ Maybe if we give up and go to the orders side a new one will come up.

But then we would just get pissed off when DBJ do something good. I guess we just nee to learn how to wait

ok waiting sucks

But..I'm so not pacient. lol. I can't even spell the word thats how bad it is! xD

Lurker wrote:The notion that how something is said is more important than what's said isn't always true.

But suggesting that, especially in an emotionally driven conversation among normal humans, everything is to be taken literally, isn't realistic either.

Lurker wrote:In any event, I didn't see it as threatening. It sounded bitter to me, but not threatening - and the words themselves weren't a threat anyway.

Bitterness doesn't explain her aggressive look and pushing, though - and, as mentioned, I did interpret the words as a threat.

Lurker wrote:If they were going to do that, they had the perfect opportunity. They had them outnumbered and in the middle of nowhere, with only a very shaky, seemingly insane Jonas - with a pistol he probably can't aim straight - as their opponent.

Hmm, let's see:

• They were seen on arrival
• Their opponent was armed with a firearm
• One of their agents was between the opponents
• There was a car in the way
• One of their opponents was mentally instable, armed, and a trained boxer, while
• Another opponent was just recently trained by an opposing agent, and
• The third opponent might just go postal after the Order cost him another girl

...I don't quite see the "perfect opportunity" part there. Especially not since, iirc, the only mentioned Orderites on LGPedia were Lucy and one Watcher, with a definite statement that the second car's back row was empty. So chances are it's just Lucy, Alex and a Watcher against Daniel, Jonas and Bree. No outnumbering there. Hell, even if there was another Watcher, I'm inclined to believe that, for a trained boxer, it wouldn't be that much of a problem to knock out Alex within seconds, thereby evening it out again, and, if Lucy's defense isn't up yet, even turning the tides.
And that's all not taking into account that killing people on camera is never a smart idea, no matter who controls the footage afterwards.

Lurker wrote:According to her, it wasn't about them; it was about her. Who's to say she said anything about where to find them? If she knew they were coming to take her, maybe she just wanted to enjoy herself for a little while first?

Even that version would make her a selfish bitch for not caring about the fact that the Order will know where BD&J are afterwards. And even in that version, BD&J would feel betrayed, because they trusted Alex had severed their ties with the order, and she broke that trust.
And that's all assuming she didn't lie. If she is evil, she might just have made it up to cover up the failure - think about it: What looks better?

• The Order shows up to violently capture and kill them, but realizes they're armed and willing to fight, so it just gets back into the car and flees as quickly as possible, or
• The Order shows up right in front of their eyes, knowing where they are even in a foreign country, and arrogantly pick up an agent from right out of their middle.

The second one looks mighty and invincible. So even if they totally failed, for them, it would have been vital to keep up the image and just pretend that they didn't plan to attack all along.
The alternative would be to give the TAAG a victory - do you have any idea how dangerous it is to give people the idea they might actually succeed? BD&J might think about how to actively hurt the Order instead of always running! They could all get trained by Tachyon and Brother. Free other "chosen girls". Build an army. Contact TFW. And just generally f*ck over the Order. All because a little, unnecessary victory gave them hope.

Lurker wrote:Yet before now they've never said anything to the effect of Bree being off the hook. If they're still trying to intimidate or otherwise manipulate her into this, then that's a poor move.

Ever heard the expression "he knew too much"? Just because Bree doesn't have to do the ceremony doesn't mean she's off the hook. It plays into what I read into her words: They don't need Bree anymore - they have no more reason to keep her alive. What would you do, in the Order's place? Just let the kids go home and sell the movie rights to their adventures, after they published their critically acclaimed book "The Order in the Modern Empire - A Tale of Three Fugitives"?

Lurker wrote:Also, if Alex was just trying to trick them for some reason ... why blow her cover to no effective end? Why not have her try turning DB against Bree to try breaking her down or something? It makes zero sense.

Hence why I said, several times, that it all made no sense.

Lurker wrote:Again, however, they weren't harmed. So where's the betrayal?

Again, in the fact that everybody trusted her to keep their location secret because they were hiding from the Order, and she called the Order instead and lead it right to them.

Lurker wrote:Yet no such delivery was made. You've really got to twist what happened around, play off semantics, and put BD&J at the center of the event - when Alex even said it was about her - to make it out that she did something heinous.

That's like arguing "The pizza man didn't deliver the pizza" when he showed up at your door, you shoved a gun into his face, and he ran away.
If Alex called, said "I'll have them at the beach at 5 PM" and the Order shows up and finds Alex and the TAAG, then she delivered them alright. If the Order is incapable of accepting the consignment, because the package is armed, then that doesn't change the fact that the package was delivered as ordered.
And that's all pretending they stopped their mind games. If Bree is still "untouchable" due to her birthmark or whatever, then being there and being seen might just have been exactly what they wanted - nothing more. (And, to answer your "why would they do that?" in advance - to continue their intimidation in order to make sure BD&J don't get the idea to go to the media to publish what they know. As long as the TAAG is on the run and in the defense, they're no danger. The moment they don't feel the presence of the Order anymore, they might feel safe enough to plan a retaliation.)

Okay I just got myself calmed down. I'm only up to page 4. Just wanted to say that I wonder if what "Alex has to do" is the Ceremony. Maybe the Order said they'd hurt her if she didn't or something? Maybe they'll end up having to save Alex? That'd be boring.

Who the hell is Madison?

Anyway, back to reading, I can't wait to see everyone's theories.

JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote:Okay I just got myself calmed down. I'm only up to page 4. Just wanted to say that I wonder if what "Alex has to do" is the Ceremony. Maybe the Order said they'd hurt her if she didn't or something? Maybe they'll end up having to save Alex? That'd be boring.

Who the hell is Madison?

Anyway, back to reading, I can't wait to see everyone's theories.

Shes a new character! ^_^ heres her youtube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=maddisonatkins
And her myspace: http://www.myspace.com/maddyatkins

watching_watchers wrote:

JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote:Okay I just got myself calmed down. I'm only up to page 4. Just wanted to say that I wonder if what "Alex has to do" is the Ceremony. Maybe the Order said they'd hurt her if she didn't or something? Maybe they'll end up having to save Alex? That'd be boring.

Who the hell is Madison?

Anyway, back to reading, I can't wait to see everyone's theories.

Shes a new character! ^_^ heres her youtube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=maddisonatkins
And her myspace: http://www.myspace.com/maddyatkins

She isn't a new character. Nobody knows her status (fanfic or canon).
I pray she's just fanfic.

Renegade that was awesome!!

Languorous Lass wrote:

Misty wrote:

ApotheosisAZ wrote:
I find myself dreaming of a Lucy/Apo/Alex sandwich right now....

I'd rather have a Bree/Misty/Madison sandwich

Nah. Maddison looks about 12. Give me Tachyon and Alex.

Well 12 would be perfect, since I'm 13. But I'll take Tachyon and Alex. tooo

Chelseyrl wrote:

watching_watchers wrote:

JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote:Okay I just got myself calmed down. I'm only up to page 4. Just wanted to say that I wonder if what "Alex has to do" is the Ceremony. Maybe the Order said they'd hurt her if she didn't or something? Maybe they'll end up having to save Alex? That'd be boring.

Who the hell is Madison?

Anyway, back to reading, I can't wait to see everyone's theories.

Shes a new character! ^_^ heres her youtube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=maddisonatkins
And her myspace: http://www.myspace.com/maddyatkins

She isn't a new character. Nobody knows her status (fanfic or canon).
I pray she's just fanfic.

Yeah seriously. She's so annoying. She's not even pretty. And her friend Adam is the most irritating person ever.
Where did you guys see the birthmark? She was wearing t-shirts the whole time.
Also, she totally alluded to another birthmark in her groin or something..lmao.

This is stupid. I hope Madison isn't canon.

she told us she has two birthmarks. check out the thread in the fanfic section:
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8650

Renegade wrote:

Lurker wrote:The notion that how something is said is more important than what's said isn't always true.

But suggesting that, especially in an emotionally driven conversation among normal humans, everything is to be taken literally, isn't realistic either.

That's fair enough. I felt like the point needed to be made, though.

Renegade wrote:Bitterness doesn't explain her aggressive look and pushing, though ...

Why wouldn't it? If something bad is going to happen to her, she might blame Bree for it a little.

Renegade wrote:... and, as mentioned, I did interpret the words as a threat.

But the words themselves aren't a threat, and that's the point I was making. "If they decide they don't need you anymore, they will kill you" would be a case where the words themselves were a threat.

Renegade wrote:

Lurker wrote:If they were going to do that, they had the perfect opportunity. They had them outnumbered and in the middle of nowhere, with only a very shaky, seemingly insane Jonas - with a pistol he probably can't aim straight - as their opponent.

Hmm, let's see:

• They were seen on arrival
• Their opponent was armed with a firearm
• One of their agents was between the opponents
• There was a car in the way
• One of their opponents was mentally instable, armed, and a trained boxer, while
• Another opponent was just recently trained by an opposing agent, and
• The third opponent might just go postal after the Order cost him another girl

...I don't quite see the "perfect opportunity" part there. Especially not since, iirc, the only mentioned Orderites on LGPedia were Lucy and one Watcher, with a definite statement that the second car's back row was empty. So chances are it's just Lucy, Alex and a Watcher against Daniel, Jonas and Bree. No outnumbering there.

What's Bree and Daniel going to do? Seriously. I don't care how much Tachyon taught Bree or how pissed Daniel is, they're not going to do a thing to someone with a gun, especially when they would need to close the distance to even touch them.

And I doubt the Creators wanted us to think the Order only sent two people to handle this. There were two cars. The last time we saw just Lucy and one other person sent somewhere ("The Unthinkable Happened"), they used one vehicle. Added to that, the last time Lucy was heading somewhere that she knew to expect Bree, Daniel and Jonas all to be together, she went with three other people instead of one - and they had Daniel drugged and in their custody on that occasion!

I doubt it was just Lucy and one other guy. It would make no sense. There must have been at least four of them altogether, not counting Alex (who may not have sided with them). Even if Alex sided with BD&J in a fight, though, it's going to be at least four Orderites with guns (or two in your argument) against four people who have one gun between them. That does leave them outnumbered in all the ways that would have mattered if it came to blows.

By the way, at the end, they drive right past Jonas. They could have easily capped him. For whatever reason, that wasn't their objective.

By the way again ... to suggest that maybe they were looking for an easy victory and had to scrap the fight because one gun showed up doesn't really make sense anyway. If they did go there looking for an easy victory, why not send eight Orderites? 10? 12? Why wait for them to get back to the car at all? I don't think they wanted a fight.

Renegade wrote:And that's all not taking into account that killing people on camera is never a smart idea, no matter who controls the footage afterwards.

It's easy to destroy a camera. In any case, they weren't bothered with killing someone on camera on December 31.

Renegade wrote:Even that version would make her a selfish bitch for not caring about the fact that the Order will know where BD&J are afterwards.

They've doubtless known all along. The kids have been living in Alex's house.

Anyway, maybe it would be selfish of her not to tell them what was going to happen, but if they had known, they would have tried to prepare for a fight. For all we know at the moment, rather than having them risk a fight in which they would get killed, or flee (which might also lead to them getting killed), Alex just went out to have a little fun while she knew they were coming.

Without something that looks like a heinous betrayal having occurred - especially when the Order would have easily had the whole thing sewn up if they were looking to bring harm - I'm not going to assume she was doing anything to harm them. It just doesn't make sense with what actually happened and what could have happened.

Renegade wrote:If she is evil, she might just have made it up to cover up the failure ...

Again, if they were there to bring harm, why not send enough people to make sure they never had the slightest chance? Why not swarm and surround them while they're down on the beach? I'd still say they probably sent three people with Lucy and had no intention of fighting.

By the way, are the Orderites telepathic? Was Alex able to communiate to Lucy and the others "I'm going to make something really random up! Forget the old plan about killing them!"?

Renegade wrote:Ever heard the expression "he knew too much"? Just because Bree doesn't have to do the ceremony doesn't mean she's off the hook. It plays into what I read into her words: They don't need Bree anymore - they have no more reason to keep her alive. What would you do, in the Order's place? Just let the kids go home and sell the movie rights to their adventures, after they published their critically acclaimed book "The Order in the Modern Empire - A Tale of Three Fugitives"?

If you've been watching any of my other posts today, you've seen I've been the one to point that out more than anyone else. Yet the fact that they didn't do it when there was no way they could have failed says that it wasn't what they wanted.

Hell, they wouldn't have even had to ambush them on the beach if Alex was in on a plan to assassinate them. They've been living in her house. She could have just planted a bomb and blown the place up. Or opened the door in the middle of the night for the Order to come in and waste them.

There were so many ways they could have killed them by now if that's what they were trying to do, and to pass up an opportunity when they were off alone on a deserted beach where just a couple of Orderites (not even four, as were probably sent) could have killed every one of them ... it just doesn't make sense. At all. I can't see how it's even up for argument.

While I would kill them were I in the Order's place, that's clearly not what they wanted. Why that is? Who knows. But if they'd wanted to do it, they've had multiple perfect opportunities.

Renegade wrote:And that's all pretending they stopped their mind games. If Bree is still "untouchable" due to her birthmark or whatever, then being there and being seen might just have been exactly what they wanted - nothing more. (And, to answer your "why would they do that?" in advance - to continue their intimidation in order to make sure BD&J don't get the idea to go to the media to publish what they know. ...

Renegade ... they've been posting this stuff on the world wide web since June. There wouldn't be a person who didn't already know about it. The media would have been all over this thing for months already. Nikki Bower would be one of hundreds of reporters trying to track them down.

(By the way, just because I vehemently disagree with your argument here doesn't mean I would need to ask you why they would see a point in making their presence known. The point would be obvious.)

Oops didn't see the posts above me. Or rather didnt read!

Chelseyrl wrote:

watching_watchers wrote:

JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote:Okay I just got myself calmed down. I'm only up to page 4. Just wanted to say that I wonder if what "Alex has to do" is the Ceremony. Maybe the Order said they'd hurt her if she didn't or something? Maybe they'll end up having to save Alex? That'd be boring.

Who the hell is Madison?

Anyway, back to reading, I can't wait to see everyone's theories.

Shes a new character! ^_^ heres her youtube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=maddisonatkins
And her myspace: http://www.myspace.com/maddyatkins

She isn't a new character. Nobody knows her status (fanfic or canon).
I pray she's just fanfic.

Excuse me. Jesus. But what I read implyed she was.