Improve the forum on the video page ~ add an ignore button

[trunbuns]

IMO let the comments live!

I don't use them or even look at them to be honest, but plenty of people obviously do, thats fine whatever. I generally feel that if people want to come to forums and delve deeper they will, if not fair enough their loss! I personally prefer it here because responses are generally more thought out than the comments which I believe a lot of people use to just post initial thoughts and comments, or are used by people who watch the videos post then leave. A lot of people don't want to get into the whole community thing, yet still want to leave their thoughts on something.

I realise some people want to discuss videos at length in the comments and my advice to them is...come on in to the forums, the waters nice here, and everyone WANTS to discuss videos at length! Leave the comments to a particular kind of fan.

Also about the 'first' thing, I realise this is a hinderence to those wanting real info but let them continue. Let them have their little victory, I personnally don't understand it, but it's almost become a cultural phenomenom and I can see where the humour lies, although the ignore button is a good idea.

PS i don't really feel that there is much flaming in these boards.

PPS the latest video doesnt really have any first comments, It seems to be dieing out

[annie]

Also about the 'first' thing, I realise this is a hinderence to those wanting real info but let them continue. Let them have their little victory, I personnally don't understand it, but it's almost become a cultural phenomenom and I can see where the humour lies, although the ignore button is a good idea.

I respect your perspective on it... it's not obnoxious to you , and that's cool. For me, and a number of people who had been reading and/or having good interchange on the comments page, it's a really annoying intrusion and detracts a lot.

Not sure about it being a cultural phenomenon (I don't see it on the YouTube comments for these videos, thankfully), but, even if it is, flaming is a clutural phenomenon too, but that doesn't make it any less obnoxious and inconsiderate of other board members.
"Where's the beef" was a "cultural phenomenon" and that would suck in the same way if people had a little clique that typed that every three comments.
i.e. when a cliquish little crowd dominates a board, and asserts that with typing their pet phrase repeatedly, that's rude and undermines other peoples' particpation.
It's a given that, IF they care about other people's participation/enjoyment they can find a way to have fun with their clique-,members without peeing all over the board. Since that _probably_ ain't gonna happen, "Ignore" seems like the best solution.

(My edits are due to catching my stupid typing errors after posting - I am not a great typist, and I will start proof reading before I post! )

[annie]

PPS the latest video doesnt really have any first comments, It seems to be dieing out

Thank you for pointing that out!! I just scrolled down from the video (excellent vid, isn't it? -- I love how this story line is going), and saw that. Aaaah It's like a breath of fresh air.

[zachary2020]

I think it speaks well for this series that it appeals to people of "all ages", and it's great that anyone can add comments on the video page.

However, the kiddies have gotten into this little clique that has to exclaim "ffiiiiiiiirst" as it's team yell, or something.
The way that forum runs -- all one long, vertical thread -- you have to scroll through all of the posts. It's also basic, good ettiquette to try to read all, or at least a good number, of them before posting so you're not just repeating what someone else has said. It's obnoxious to have to wade through that "fiiirst! me me me me I beat you! I'm the best!" mentality, if you're not into that, and those posts also lengthen the one l-o-n-g column you have to scroll through.

I'm exceptionally glad that you posted this suggestion. I used to post on the comment page "a ways back", and just quit coming to the LonelyGirl15 site altogether, because I wasn't interested in the forum at that time, and teh commenst were being taken over by 1) lots of chatter/"look at me!", and then a relatively few people who didn't relate to others who tried to post.

This morning, I decided to visit this site, and found the comments page to be the same, if not more messy, unfortunately. I'm impressed with the videos, though, and, so, I'm trying the forum this time (just registered).

I've read through the thread and I think you've stated your case logically and pretty thoroughly, and others here have made good points as well. So, maybe the comments page will be improved.

[zachary2020]

Great! A new video! Can't wait to leave work so that I can listen to it.

I thought I'd read some of the commentary to get an idea of the crux of the video, before I leave work and... the kiddie contingent is at it, peeing all over the board, essentially.

I think that you make a good point, that the "fiiiiirst" thing is territorial, (like animals mark with urine); the relatively small group that dominates the commenst asserts it's presence, membership and "ownership" of the page that way.
Having said that, I'll add that, given the single-column format of the comments oage, I think the "Ignore" but is the only viable antidote.
The nature and format of the forum defuses the "territorial marking/peeing", but the comments page is wide open to it.

[zachary2020]

By the way, people on other boards hammer the silly attention-whores who do the "fiiiiirst" thing.

For instance, on The Superficial, where people finally got the hint and quit screaming "fiiirst" on the 89th post, there was this comment, when some tool who apparently hadn't gotten the memo posted "FIRST":
""35. Posted by krisdylee on December 12, 2006 4:54 PM

There's still poeple doing the FIRST thing?
F*ck off.....""
http://thesuperficial.com/2006/12/tara_ ... ml#comment


I wonder if the people who post on the video comment page will ever get the hint.

[annie]

I was on a Yahoo news board a little bit ago, and they have this to say:

"As currently set up, the Yahoo! News message boards allow a small number of vocal users to dominate the discussion. In addition, related discussions from similar news articles are not easily linked. Over the next few months, we plan to offer new discussion forums based on topics in the news and incorporating the latest features to foster a better discussion for all of our readers. "

With minor editing( "As currently set up, the <insert: LG15 comment page> allows a small number of vocal users to dominate the discussion.")
it applies here.

It will be interesting to see what Yahoo comes up with.

[kageyuki]

Hmmm... How interesting...

I had never really used the comments list from the main page because of the irritation I felt from weeding through all the "FIIIIIIRRRSSSTT" posts. Maybe I wouldn't have minded as much if there were actually some pertinent information added along them. Alas, such would not be the case.

Did I get tired and fed up with it after seeing fifty or so posts go by with that same general message, with no end, yet, in sight? Of course. That's why I joined the forums.

I don't doubt that there were genuine ideas and concepts within the comment lists on the main page. Problem was that I never got to see them. Yes, searching for someone specific was easy enough, if you knew who to look for.

I kinda like the convenience that you have, here on the forums. Teh confidence that no matter which thread you enter, you know that you'll be able to find conversations easily. You may still have to weed through extra messages here and there, but they are quite minimal compared to what I'd experienced on the main page.

Some may think the main page is more convenient. I do not. I think these forums are.

And to touch base on your theory that the forums are filled with flamewars?? I've been an active poster for a few days, but I'd been lurking for a week or two. I try to look into every subject on the forums, and I have no idea where you're basing these accusations of flamewars running rampant in the forums. Those are quite slanderous words, my friend.

I think both entities should stay as they are; separate from one another. If merged, can it be said for certain that the multiple first message situation could be averted?

Sorry to take up everyone's precious time. These are just my opinions. I hold myself accountable for them.

[Hooda17]

First, let me start by saying this is my first post in the forums. Now that I have dashed my credibility to pieces, I'll start..

I enjoy following the vid comments and have posted there often. When I first started watching, there were a handful of posters, seemingly with the desire and time to refresh all the live-long day, who put "FIRST!" on every vid. I found this extremely irritating. Then, along came General Firstsayer. His cries of "FIIIIIIIIRRRRRSSSSSSSTSTTTTTTTTT!!!!1!1!11!!!" seemed to me to be lighthearted jabs (albeit counterproductive ones) at the true first-saying posters, and I found them to be comical and somewhat endearing. Clearly I'm not the only one to feel this way, since he is acknowledged favorably in many of the vid comments.

I realize that it can be unpleasant for people whose desire to sift through comments is not as strong as their distaste for seemingly territorial posts, but your lack of appreciation for that humor should not lead you to believe that these posters are "kiddies". In fact, many of them are college attendees/graduates and are highly intelligent individuals pursuing or practicing jobs in the fields of law, academia, engineering, accounting, and medicine.

The two communities operate under very different codes of conduct, and no matter how many people you put on ignore, it is unlikely that you will ever enjoy the vid comments to the same degree that you appreciate the forum setting. Let those posters have their fun; it is all part of their LG experience. They enjoy their sense of community just as much as you enjoy yours.

[kageyuki]

First off, let me welcome you, Hooda17. Glad to see you've joined us here. I can only hope that you enjoy the conversation, here, as much as you have on the vid comments page. I hope you get the chance to take a look through the topics and get a feel for what it's truly like, here.

Second, I must admit that I am probably guilty of being just like one of those people that you'd described, who did not desire to sift through comment after comment. I can appreciate humor as much as the next person, but when it gets to the point of doing it just to get attention (which is what all that really seems to add up to,) it kinda passes the point of just irritation.

What's the big deal about being able to post first, anyway? Okay, maybe that's not such a bad thing, but trying to post first just so you can call out "FIIIIIIRRRRRSSSSSSSSST!!!!!!!111!!!" kinda makes me wonder about that person.

Funny? Maybe the first few times, but the hilarity of that kinda wears thin on me pretty quick, especially if I'm trying to find something intelligible to reply to. Maybe that's just me, though. I try to make comments on things because I want to talk about it. Not because I want to see the "FIRST!!" comment (and any of its hundreds of variations) innumerable times before I can spot someone I can discuss with.

I agree to keep both entities as is. Both... "realms" have entirely different codes of conduct, as you say. I'm perfectly fine with those in the video comment realm having their fun. I may try again, someday, to visit, and once again, try to communicate, but I enjoy myself perfectly fine, right here. As you might say, "to each, their own," right?

I hope I haven't spoiled your experience here. These are just my comments, though aren't comments what make any type of forum click?

[annie]

First, let me start by saying this is my first post in the forums. Now that I have dashed my credibility to pieces, I'll start..

I enjoy following the vid comments and have posted there often. When I first started watching, there was a handful of posters, seemingly with the desire and time to refresh all the live-long day, who put "FIRST!" on every vid. I found this extremely irritating. Then, along came General Firstsayer. His cries of "FIIIIIIIIRRRRRSSSSSSSTSTTTTTTTTT!!!!1!1!11!!!" seemed to me to be lighthearted jabs (albeit counterproductive ones) at the true first-saying posters, and I found them to be comical and somewhat endearing. Clearly I'm not the only one to feel this way, since he is acknowledged favorably in many of the vid comments.

I realize that it can be unpleasant for people whose desire to sift through comments is not as strong as their distaste for seemingly territorial posts, but your lack of appreciation for that humor should not lead you to believe that these posters are "kiddies". In fact, many of them are college attendees/graduates and are highly intelligent individuals pursuing or practicing jobs in the fields of law, academia, engineering, accounting, and medicine.

The two communities operate under very different codes of conduct, and no matter how many people you put on ignore, it is unlikely that you will ever enjoy the vid comments to the same degree that you appreciate the forum setting. Let those posters have their fun; it is all part of their LG experience. They enjoy their sense of community just as much as you enjoy yours.

I think your credibility is just fine. ...and your view of the comments page is taken in good spirit.

My reference to "kiddies" is partly metaphoric. I was talking as much about mind set as about actual age. Many a PhD is still immature.

I think Yahoo states it in a nutshell:
"""As currently set up, the Yahoo! News message boards allow a small
number of vocal users to dominate the discussion. In addition, related discussions from similar news articles are not easily linked. Over the next few months, we plan to offer new discussion forums based on topics in the news and incorporating the latest features to foster a better discussion for all of our readers. """

The people who are into that dominate, and that's bull. They can have fun and still respect others who don't want to have to deal with that. What I object to is the "attention-whoring", if you'll pardon my vernacular, and the pretty much complete inconsideration of others.

I've also mentioned this site to other people, at work and at several parties and they just roll their eyes... because they have encountered the comments page and been put off.
There are many people who don't want to go so far as joing the forum but who would like to discuss the videos, and the people who dominate the comments page are a turn off to them.
I found myself defending the comments page just to try to off-set the negative view these people had gotten of the site. But I can understand how they got that view an d why they wouldn't want to read through all the gunk and try to participate when there's an obviously dominant, and pretty immature, clique.

Even though your opinion and mine are pretty much diametrically opposite, I appreciate your being friendly and non-condescending. I hope you post in the forum more often, now.

[annie]

kageyuki, I really enjoy reading your comments. I have posted a lot less than you have in the forum, and I respect someone who can participate like you do!

My feeling about the comments page is that the current clique is so dominerring that it is more than simply a "culture". As mentioned in my previous post, I have brought up the LG15 site, because the series is one of my interests and so I natrually would like to chat about it with some of the people I'm around. Of the people I mentioned it to, three watch the videos and go to the site about once a week to check for more, but were discouraged from chatting because the comments section was such a mess. One said it looked like "home for trolls".
The other two people I mentioned it to just said "eh no thanks" and thought it was for kids, an impression gotten from starting to wade into the comments.

The clique can have fun, but it doesn't have to insist on dominating, as it does now. Yahoo acknowledges this type of situation as not being user friendly... and I agree with them.

[kageyuki]

annie, just because the number of posts someone makes is not as high as someone else's doesn't mean that I would respect them any more or less. If that's what you were getting at. Quality, not quantity. Though if you can combine both, then that is a plus.

Is the clique on the main page irritating and domineering? Even using as much tact as I can, I would have to agree with you. But that is why we're here instead of there. Don't get me wrong, there are people, here on the forums, who can get just as "childish". It just seems that there aren't that many of them or they just don't tend to post very often.

Out of the people that you referred, did you mention that they had a choice to come into these forums? That there was a separate 'site' that they could go to to chat with other LG15 fans and fanatics? Maybe, if they had known this they would not have been so hesitant.

The clique may not be very user friendly, but how many cliques had you encountered that were friendly to "outsiders" who might seem to threaten their fun? Try to look at things from other perspectives.

Those people who are part of that clique have found a home there, and changing that may mean they would lose their "home". I haven't been around as long as you, but I'd still feel the same way if someone charged in here, and proceeded to make major changes with this place. I don't really mind if the changes are made to make that place more "user friendly"... but change is not always a good thing, especially if it is sudden, and you don't give people time to adjust.

All it comes down to is the choice. With the forums, you do have to make a very minor comittment (and I say that loosely,) but it is still a choice versus mingling with an "irritating, unfriendly and domineering" (as commented) clique.

Sometimes, it is better to compromise than sacrifice...

[annie]

annie, just because the number of posts someone makes is not as high as someone else's doesn't mean that I would respect them any more or less. If that's what you were getting at. Quality, not quantity. Though if you can combine both, then that is a plus.

Is the clique on the main page irritating and domineering? Even using as much tact as I can, I would have to agree with you. But that is why we're here instead of there. Don't get me wrong, there are people, here on the forums, who can get just as "childish". It just seems that there aren't that many of them or they just don't tend to post very often.

Out of the people that you referred, did you mention that they had a choice to come into these forums? That there was a separate 'site' that they could go to to chat with other LG15 fans and fanatics? Maybe, if they had known this they would not have been so hesitant.

The clique may not be very user friendly, but how many cliques had you encountered that were friendly to "outsiders" who might seem to threaten their fun? Try to look at things from other perspectives.

Those people who are part of that clique have found a home there, and changing that may mean they would lose their "home". I haven't been around as long as you, but I'd still feel the same way if someone charged in here, and proceeded to make major changes with this place. I don't really mind if the changes are made to make that place more "user friendly"... but change is not always a good thing, especially if it is sudden, and you don't give people time to adjust.

All it comes down to is the choice. With the forums, you do have to make a very minor comittment (and I say that loosely,) but it is still a choice versus mingling with an "irritating, unfriendly and domineering" (as commented) clique.

Sometimes, it is better to compromise than sacrifice...

You are so right that quality is preferable over quantity, but having both is the plus side! What I was referring to was "both", really -- the quality of your posts, in that you relate well to what others have said, and your capacity to do that fairly frequently. (I try to relate, with quality, but my consistency, i.e. "quantity" isn't great.)

That's a good question: did I mention the forum to those people? In all cases but one, I did mention the forums, and that the moderator in the forums is very good. The response was mostly disinterested. One person said that he was already committed to a few forums and mainly wanted to bat the breeze, briefly at the LG15 site's comment page, and not delve into a forum.

There is a whole segment of "fan base" that may not want to go as far as being "forum members" but would like to share some commentary in a friendly, even environment.

Since a clique is highschoolish, I see an analogy in the case where a domineering clique is allowed to take over the lunchroom. Sure, that's great for them... and other people could go out for lunch. But is it fair? In my opinion: No. Let the clique have a section of the lunch room and go out for lunch, too, but there is no reason for them to "own" the whole thing. They are no more "special" or entitled than the rest of the fans, or the people who stop by once a week or so and would simply like to enjoy their time there without join a forum.

Yahoo has forums that more deeply cover the topics listed on the daily news message boards, and they recognize that many people just want to "stop by" and be able to participate and that this is undermined when a "vocal few" dominate.

Ah, well I'm off to sleep (the end of the semester is tough on grad students, as I'm sure other members here know).

I appreciate your thoughts on this, kageyuki, and enjoy talking with you.

[kageyuki]

Thanks for your compliments! I try to be concise when I write a response, but sometimes, I go a bit overboard. Luckily, where I work has a reliable wireless internet connection, so I can log on with my laptop while I'm at work and get updates on LG15 and from the forums even when I'm at work.

(See what I mean by "going overboard" I'm usually not this talkative. It usually only happens in forums... )

I'm sorry, I hadn't thought about that; that people may not want to join the forums becuase of prior obligations to other forums, or just general disinterest. I know some people just want to post recreationally, but don't these forums have guest access?

I loved your analogy using the lunchroom setting, it is so fitting! It isn't fair for this clique to be able to take over the lunchroom, but I can remember visiting other friends' high schools and that their schools had multiple lunchrooms. Therefore, other options than having to go out for lunch. Yeah, you had your 'assinged' lunchroom, but that never stopped anyone from trying to go to one of the other lunchrooms.

In a way, that's kinda what these two entities are like... Two separate places for the same thing. It isn't fair for them to own the whole thing, but if you notice, they don't really own "it all" there are always those few people who keep going to that lunchroom, even though the clique doesn't 'accept' them.

Maybe they can add other "lunchrooms" intstead of changing one?

I hope that you slept well. I've enjoyed communicating with you, as well, and hope to see you around!