Hurray trainer101!
I agree completely with all of your points.
This is what my take on the OpA/Tachy one-way street is:
They are supposed to be espionage agents so they can see the core characters' vids as well as monitor bunches of other stuff that the core characters (save for maybe Gemma?) wouldn't be able to get their hands on. For example, Tachyon getting that footage of Gemma and Lucy, or knowing that the car was bugged.
But their own videos, despite being obstensibly put out on the same YouTube/Lonelygirl15 site as the core characters', are actually posted "somewhere else" in the Breeniverse. The only reason they show up in the same YouTube/LG15 site for us in the "real world" is so we'd be able to access/watch/participate.
I guess you could say the very nature of the ARG requires a different level of suspension of disbelief than the Main Plot vids. It is still feasible that runaway teenagers will post YouTube videos even when they are on the lam, because this IS the Myspace generation. But have a covert global Illuminati type cult post YouTube vids of puzzles and potentially illegal activities?..... yeah.
So what I've always assumed is that the ARG videos show up on YouTube/as video replies so that the LG15 fans can watch and disect them, but in the Breeniverse world they would probably posted somewhere more secure. Or maybe Tachyon's videos are posted on the Breeniver YouTube, but OpA's are not (and Tachy can view them simply because she kicks ass).
Who Can "See" "What" "Where"??
Moderator: Moderators
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trainer101
- Moderator Manager
- Posts: 2639
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:29 pm
- Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
More evidence of this can be seen in "Bree Chat" and "Beast Chat". Bree and Daniel do not respond to any posts relating to anything outside their world.
Same thing with the forums - they see "Bree Chat" and "Beast Chat" but do not see the plotline or video discussions. Their references to the forum are contained to the areas where they interact.
Same thing with the forums - they see "Bree Chat" and "Beast Chat" but do not see the plotline or video discussions. Their references to the forum are contained to the areas where they interact.
It's ALL connected...
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trainer101
- Moderator Manager
- Posts: 2639
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:29 pm
- Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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gigglingmonk
- Lonely Fan
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:11 pm
- Location: California
Isn't it sort of like when your in an arguement with someone and they choose to hear only what they want? The 4 characters(meaning everyone but Op and Tach) only see things their character needs/wants to see..as in, everything that would completely just ruin the story, make them confused or anything else, is ignored, just like what trainer101 mentioned about the chats.
I think this whole thing is sort of like in Shakespeare, when one character makes an aside or a soliloquy(An aside is a short speech that is spoken in the presence of other characters but not heard by them. A soliloquy is an extended monologue delivered by a speaker who is either alone on the stage or temporarily detached from other characters) it provides the audience with information, but the other characters don't know, creating dramatic irony(where the audience knows whats going to happen, but the characters are ignorant i.e. cameras in Daniel's room, although we don't know whats going to happen, we know things that Daniel does not which may or may not cause us to know what might happen to him in the future later in the series).
I think its just like that, except only some of Tachyon's videos would have been posted on the "Breeniver YouTube". If they were all posted on there, there might be a few problems(my brain is dead right now, so I can't think of too many examples).So what I've always assumed is that the ARG videos show up on YouTube/as video replies so that the LG15 fans can watch and disect them, but in the Breeniverse world they would probably posted somewhere more secure. Or maybe Tachyon's videos are posted on the Breeniver YouTube, but OpA's are not (and Tachy can view them simply because she kicks ass).
I think this whole thing is sort of like in Shakespeare, when one character makes an aside or a soliloquy(An aside is a short speech that is spoken in the presence of other characters but not heard by them. A soliloquy is an extended monologue delivered by a speaker who is either alone on the stage or temporarily detached from other characters) it provides the audience with information, but the other characters don't know, creating dramatic irony(where the audience knows whats going to happen, but the characters are ignorant i.e. cameras in Daniel's room, although we don't know whats going to happen, we know things that Daniel does not which may or may not cause us to know what might happen to him in the future later in the series).
watch the sun
as it crawls across a final time
and it feels like
like it was a friend
if its watching us
and the world we set on fire
do you wonder
if it feels the same?
Testing the OpA theory out.
I posted a topic, in character, to Danielbeast in Beast Chat. Asked him if he is aware of a YouTube user named OpAphid who posted a video of cameras hidden in his room.
Now, they don't respond to all topics even if they are relevant and in character... but I'm guessing he probably won't respond to that because the if my theory's right, the OpA videos are not posted on the very public YouTube in the Breeniverse.
What I like about these mult-layers and suspensions of reality is that I think the Creators really have created a viable alternate universe. Or more like, the two universes (the Breeniverse, and the "real universe") started off the same and diverged. And the website is like a portal...
oh god i'm a dork.
I posted a topic, in character, to Danielbeast in Beast Chat. Asked him if he is aware of a YouTube user named OpAphid who posted a video of cameras hidden in his room.
Now, they don't respond to all topics even if they are relevant and in character... but I'm guessing he probably won't respond to that because the if my theory's right, the OpA videos are not posted on the very public YouTube in the Breeniverse.
What I like about these mult-layers and suspensions of reality is that I think the Creators really have created a viable alternate universe. Or more like, the two universes (the Breeniverse, and the "real universe") started off the same and diverged. And the website is like a portal...
oh god i'm a dork.
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covedweller
The top two posts above me are BRILLIANT. Love those takes on the subject matter and this unique narrative approach we are seeing!
Now why do those psycho children over at AC (who only post here to harass everyone and talk trash) have such hard-ons against any other POV entering the mix? It's odd, especially since that sort of narrative device pre-dates even Shakespeare!
I guess those "old school" LG15 fans can only contribute something positive if it involves stalking 16 year old girls online--oh, wait...it's totally okay, because it turned out to be The Creators and not a real 16 year old.
Now why do those psycho children over at AC (who only post here to harass everyone and talk trash) have such hard-ons against any other POV entering the mix? It's odd, especially since that sort of narrative device pre-dates even Shakespeare!
I guess those "old school" LG15 fans can only contribute something positive if it involves stalking 16 year old girls online--oh, wait...it's totally okay, because it turned out to be The Creators and not a real 16 year old.
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curiousGeorge
- Enthusiastic Fan
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:25 pm
- Location: Rancor Cove
OK, here go.
Miles has acknowledged on this phorum that there are serious plot problems that need to be resolved. He has also acknowledged on this phorum that the inclusion of the footage in the last Jonas video was not appropriate...
Although the Shakespearean analogy is good, it has no basis of fact in the current narrative. I wish they had thought this through to this extent. You can only take suspension of disbelief so far, then it just becomes poor writing. My threshold is obviously more stringent than yours. So be it.
Just because you WANT the writers to have the skills that you claim they have does not mean they do. I believe this is a huge case of fanwanking to avoid the problems of bad writing.
The major concern not addressed by the above is the MUCH LARGER YouTube audience who has no clue about any of the ARG elements. I personally think the OP and Tachy are really well done and need to be folded into the main storyline, hence full canon. Doing so, would eliminate this whole line of discussion. It appears as if a member of the creative writing team is now involved so this may be on the horizon.
A little Loyal Opposition never hurt any organization. If I did not care about the quality of the production, I would have given up when the cookie did not crumble.
Let's see how this plays out.
Miles has acknowledged on this phorum that there are serious plot problems that need to be resolved. He has also acknowledged on this phorum that the inclusion of the footage in the last Jonas video was not appropriate...
Although the Shakespearean analogy is good, it has no basis of fact in the current narrative. I wish they had thought this through to this extent. You can only take suspension of disbelief so far, then it just becomes poor writing. My threshold is obviously more stringent than yours. So be it.
Just because you WANT the writers to have the skills that you claim they have does not mean they do. I believe this is a huge case of fanwanking to avoid the problems of bad writing.
The major concern not addressed by the above is the MUCH LARGER YouTube audience who has no clue about any of the ARG elements. I personally think the OP and Tachy are really well done and need to be folded into the main storyline, hence full canon. Doing so, would eliminate this whole line of discussion. It appears as if a member of the creative writing team is now involved so this may be on the horizon.
That is indeed way over the line, I have never personally insulted any of you here. Personal insults do nothing but detract from your logic and this a pretty egregious accusation to make. Very poor form, but predictably used when logic and reasoning fails. I will note that Trainer101 and AniDonia did not have to resort to personal insults, you should study their examples. They are well thought out posts, I just happen to disagree with them!covedweller wrote: I guess those "old school" LG15 fans can only contribute something positive if it involves stalking 16 year old girls online--oh, wait...it's totally okay, because it turned out to be The Creators and not a real 16 year old.
A little Loyal Opposition never hurt any organization. If I did not care about the quality of the production, I would have given up when the cookie did not crumble.
Let's see how this plays out.
All Your Base are Belong to Bukanator
CG...came by to join in what was an interesting discussion - I have my sober moments- but it appears that things are getting a little testy in here.
Opposition - loyal or no - is not always welcome in the parlor of fanatics.
But Ddarn it there are a lot of Ddorks, Ddreamers, Ddilettantes and Ddemented, self-Ddeputized Ddelegates of Dduplicity willing to accept the "Dduffy in the Ddallas shower" Ddescriptions of things I and others Ddutifully Ddisbelieve.
doo-dah-doo-dah-day
Opposition - loyal or no - is not always welcome in the parlor of fanatics.
But Ddarn it there are a lot of Ddorks, Ddreamers, Ddilettantes and Ddemented, self-Ddeputized Ddelegates of Dduplicity willing to accept the "Dduffy in the Ddallas shower" Ddescriptions of things I and others Ddutifully Ddisbelieve.
doo-dah-doo-dah-day
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curiousGeorge
- Enthusiastic Fan
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:25 pm
- Location: Rancor Cove
I think the discussion CAN be interesting Slainte, even if there is pointed disagreement. We have had a phew moronic posts, but overall pretty good stuff! Let's continue, shall we.
This whole "new art form"/"new commercial entertainment venture"/whatever it is has had fits and starts from day one. We have seen moments of sheer brilliance and moments of a child stumbling and falling flat on it's face. In any case, it is never boring
Very much like life.
I think that if you take the emotion (and they do run high here at the phorum if you are the least bit critical) out of the equation it is a fascinating look at all of this new process. Incorporating classical narrative techniques like soliloquies and asides may turn out to effective techniques when combined with today's technology. Again, I find this fascinating to watch develop, even when it fails.
I admittedly have no interest in responding or giving a second thought to the "Jonas is Hawwwwt" posts or the like. That's just me, let those who do enjoy as they see fit. I am really interested in the theories put forth by a couple of those above, this is after all a new way of telling a "story" and the boundaries are not defined. Perhaps a push and shove on these boundaries are what will help to define them in the long run.
But to dissect and analyze is not a bad thing, perhaps just a different perspective. Not better or superior, just different. I think LG fandom is a big tent and there is room for all, even those with a much different perspective than most!
I don't think that anyone could argue though that the level of discussion is certainly elevated when this dissection of plot/narrative device/ character analysis is placed under a strong spotlight. The project has nothing to lose and everything to gain from thoughtful analysis. This is obviously not for casual or new fans and I don't think it is a surprise that some should be angry, that is their right.
This is not your grandmother's phorum thread.
But back On Topic: With the advent of a writer assisting the ARG elements, how do they plan to establish a logical canon that will not turn off the casual YT viewer, especially new ones? These are the core demo for future revenue generating opportunities for Telegraph Ave. The diehards will watch, but how to build this audience and maximize potential revenue? They must make the storyline easy to follow or these folks will not stay in the "game". Hee. And yet incorporated fan generated material. Whoa, tough stuff!
Again, if you don't see the difference between hardcore fans and casual viewers you are missing the point of my questioning. It is, in the end, all about the Benjamins and Telegraph Ave. needs to prove a business model that will attract and maintain a much larger demo than the current hardcore fans. Potential clients and investors are watching all of this VERY carefully to see how this plays out.
Soooo, how do they pull this off?
This whole "new art form"/"new commercial entertainment venture"/whatever it is has had fits and starts from day one. We have seen moments of sheer brilliance and moments of a child stumbling and falling flat on it's face. In any case, it is never boring
Very much like life.I think that if you take the emotion (and they do run high here at the phorum if you are the least bit critical) out of the equation it is a fascinating look at all of this new process. Incorporating classical narrative techniques like soliloquies and asides may turn out to effective techniques when combined with today's technology. Again, I find this fascinating to watch develop, even when it fails.
I admittedly have no interest in responding or giving a second thought to the "Jonas is Hawwwwt" posts or the like. That's just me, let those who do enjoy as they see fit. I am really interested in the theories put forth by a couple of those above, this is after all a new way of telling a "story" and the boundaries are not defined. Perhaps a push and shove on these boundaries are what will help to define them in the long run.
But to dissect and analyze is not a bad thing, perhaps just a different perspective. Not better or superior, just different. I think LG fandom is a big tent and there is room for all, even those with a much different perspective than most!
I don't think that anyone could argue though that the level of discussion is certainly elevated when this dissection of plot/narrative device/ character analysis is placed under a strong spotlight. The project has nothing to lose and everything to gain from thoughtful analysis. This is obviously not for casual or new fans and I don't think it is a surprise that some should be angry, that is their right.
This is not your grandmother's phorum thread.
But back On Topic: With the advent of a writer assisting the ARG elements, how do they plan to establish a logical canon that will not turn off the casual YT viewer, especially new ones? These are the core demo for future revenue generating opportunities for Telegraph Ave. The diehards will watch, but how to build this audience and maximize potential revenue? They must make the storyline easy to follow or these folks will not stay in the "game". Hee. And yet incorporated fan generated material. Whoa, tough stuff!
Again, if you don't see the difference between hardcore fans and casual viewers you are missing the point of my questioning. It is, in the end, all about the Benjamins and Telegraph Ave. needs to prove a business model that will attract and maintain a much larger demo than the current hardcore fans. Potential clients and investors are watching all of this VERY carefully to see how this plays out.
Soooo, how do they pull this off?
All Your Base are Belong to Bukanator
CG...Your post inspires me to catharsis. You'll forgive me plesaase if a lot of these paragraphs start with "I" or include a lot of references to "me".
WTF...it' Sunday afternoon, and I don't have a lot going on. Maybe the fact that i don't have anything going on on a Sunday afternoon is telling in itself.
BTW...my hands don't always do what I tell them and I am WAY too lazy to meticulously edit my text so save the comments
The fact is I am a casual viewer, maybe I take a little more interest than the basic YT viewer, and maybe I am too old for this stuff, thus out of the demo, but basically this is all just fun for me.
I've spent a lot of time since I stumbled on to this phenom in the forums and chats but I don't know how long that will last. The list of idot comments after each release was the first thing to go! After I reached the pinnacle of LG honor and placed my SLainte as "first" (I don't even remembber wich episode that was, but it was purely by qaccidnet) there was nothnig left to strive for. These forums inevitably turn into mishmashes of opinion, conjecture, insults and cliques. I guess I'm guilt y of that too.
I do like throwing caustic barbs now and again; and I LOVE taking shots at these people who take little Miss Bree and gang WAAAAAYYYYYYY too seriously but if I ever ran into one of these people on the street I wouldn't dare be so rude. I kinda dig the emotional freedom that comes with anonymity.
I'm really not - and this is not self-deprecation - smart enough for a lot of the posts and discussions i read and in some cases actually have the nerve to respond to
. My powers of perception and observation don't come close to most of the commenters'. I don't think I've ever hit on anything that hadn't already been observed analyzed and disposed of. Although I still think there is something odd about those marks on Bree's back.
I really don't think that the authors (NOTE: I will not call them creators - a little too much thank you) have hit on anything earth shattering here . I don' t think this stuff qualifies as a new genre in literature or the cinema.
It may be that it has the potential to be something really worthwhile but the lawyer, the doctor and the "indian chief" don't have what it takes bring it anywhere near that level. Maybe someone will option the script and make something out of it. I don't know, but that might be fun
The character Daniel reminds me of a lot of kids his age, probably a lot of kids that comment on these pages. Oddly enough Bree reminds me of most girls her age and a distrubing majority "women" much older than her. Joan-us reminds me of evry prick kid wiith too much good looks and money i ever met and Bree...well i just like looking at her.
The actor Yousef, from what few conversations I've had with him via email, seems like a great guy and I hope go thngs come his way. Jessica and Jackie? I don't know...I'm no talent scout.
As for the plot and ontinuity? It's a friggin "free for all". Audience participation in story telling is probably best summer camp and improv groups. These guys don't ahve anywhere near the talen or training it takes to keep control of things or keep track of who see's what where , how and when. I thnk writers keep some sort of compendium to keep track of characters etc...I think it would be a daunting task here already.
Birthmarks, strange religions, watchers, wlakers, Australie, New Zealand, odd languages, strange drugs and injections, home schooling, bowling, drug pamphlettes and boxes, parent lost in shipwrecks or spriited out of the neighborhood, convenient references to not trusting the authorities or what's up with Daniels parents, and on and on and on. not to mention all the helpful contributions from morons like this Greystioke guy, the clearly disturbed Iris (if there was EVER stalker material !!!! wow) and all the other yahoos out here...
The authors are doing all they can to keep afloat. They must be hemmorging cash and credit, it's a bad investment and it aint likely Hollywood is going to pick it up. I doubt they have the time or energy to keep track of things properly. A story that continues by piling on mysteries is simply doomed to collapse under its own weight.
Volunteer actresses, tech guys etc? No way they are going to keep the lid on things. The people are way too unstable and the inside story/gossip is way too juicy. Things are going to blow I'm sure. People gotta eat nad you can only depend on Mom Dad, Uncle Jim, the in-laws and your old roommates for so long. I'm just curious how it will happen..with a whimper or a bang?
pheww..that felt really good.
So relax, take it easy, at the rate things are going we'll be out of Iraq before any sense is made of any of this crap.
Meanwhile, I've met some apparently nice people, and spent some time doing something besides work and walking the dog.
Cheers
OH and PS I just love that quote thing that gets bigger and boigger and bigger like a funhouse mirror! So feel free to quote me in full
WTF...it' Sunday afternoon, and I don't have a lot going on. Maybe the fact that i don't have anything going on on a Sunday afternoon is telling in itself.
BTW...my hands don't always do what I tell them and I am WAY too lazy to meticulously edit my text so save the comments
The fact is I am a casual viewer, maybe I take a little more interest than the basic YT viewer, and maybe I am too old for this stuff, thus out of the demo, but basically this is all just fun for me.
I've spent a lot of time since I stumbled on to this phenom in the forums and chats but I don't know how long that will last. The list of idot comments after each release was the first thing to go! After I reached the pinnacle of LG honor and placed my SLainte as "first" (I don't even remembber wich episode that was, but it was purely by qaccidnet) there was nothnig left to strive for. These forums inevitably turn into mishmashes of opinion, conjecture, insults and cliques. I guess I'm guilt y of that too.
I do like throwing caustic barbs now and again; and I LOVE taking shots at these people who take little Miss Bree and gang WAAAAAYYYYYYY too seriously but if I ever ran into one of these people on the street I wouldn't dare be so rude. I kinda dig the emotional freedom that comes with anonymity.
I'm really not - and this is not self-deprecation - smart enough for a lot of the posts and discussions i read and in some cases actually have the nerve to respond to
. My powers of perception and observation don't come close to most of the commenters'. I don't think I've ever hit on anything that hadn't already been observed analyzed and disposed of. Although I still think there is something odd about those marks on Bree's back.I really don't think that the authors (NOTE: I will not call them creators - a little too much thank you) have hit on anything earth shattering here . I don' t think this stuff qualifies as a new genre in literature or the cinema.
It may be that it has the potential to be something really worthwhile but the lawyer, the doctor and the "indian chief" don't have what it takes bring it anywhere near that level. Maybe someone will option the script and make something out of it. I don't know, but that might be fun
The character Daniel reminds me of a lot of kids his age, probably a lot of kids that comment on these pages. Oddly enough Bree reminds me of most girls her age and a distrubing majority "women" much older than her. Joan-us reminds me of evry prick kid wiith too much good looks and money i ever met and Bree...well i just like looking at her.
The actor Yousef, from what few conversations I've had with him via email, seems like a great guy and I hope go thngs come his way. Jessica and Jackie? I don't know...I'm no talent scout.
As for the plot and ontinuity? It's a friggin "free for all". Audience participation in story telling is probably best summer camp and improv groups. These guys don't ahve anywhere near the talen or training it takes to keep control of things or keep track of who see's what where , how and when. I thnk writers keep some sort of compendium to keep track of characters etc...I think it would be a daunting task here already.
Birthmarks, strange religions, watchers, wlakers, Australie, New Zealand, odd languages, strange drugs and injections, home schooling, bowling, drug pamphlettes and boxes, parent lost in shipwrecks or spriited out of the neighborhood, convenient references to not trusting the authorities or what's up with Daniels parents, and on and on and on. not to mention all the helpful contributions from morons like this Greystioke guy, the clearly disturbed Iris (if there was EVER stalker material !!!! wow) and all the other yahoos out here...
The authors are doing all they can to keep afloat. They must be hemmorging cash and credit, it's a bad investment and it aint likely Hollywood is going to pick it up. I doubt they have the time or energy to keep track of things properly. A story that continues by piling on mysteries is simply doomed to collapse under its own weight.
Volunteer actresses, tech guys etc? No way they are going to keep the lid on things. The people are way too unstable and the inside story/gossip is way too juicy. Things are going to blow I'm sure. People gotta eat nad you can only depend on Mom Dad, Uncle Jim, the in-laws and your old roommates for so long. I'm just curious how it will happen..with a whimper or a bang?
pheww..that felt really good.
So relax, take it easy, at the rate things are going we'll be out of Iraq before any sense is made of any of this crap.
Meanwhile, I've met some apparently nice people, and spent some time doing something besides work and walking the dog.
Cheers
OH and PS I just love that quote thing that gets bigger and boigger and bigger like a funhouse mirror! So feel free to quote me in full
-
curiousGeorge
- Enthusiastic Fan
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:25 pm
- Location: Rancor Cove
Well, I checked Slainte and you were the first poster to use the word "catharsis" on the phorum. Not sure how to interpret those results
Yes, trying to manage the current plot must be like herding cats. It is fun to watch them try though and I truly hope they can pull this off.
Yes, trying to manage the current plot must be like herding cats. It is fun to watch them try though and I truly hope they can pull this off.
All Your Base are Belong to Bukanator
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Languorous Lass
- The Order of Denderah
- Posts: 2568
- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:06 pm
- Location: Gone, baby, gone
CG, I hadn't heard before your post that Miles has acknowledged that the use of the Op footage in Jonas's video was inappropriate. If that's the case, then the issue of who can see what has indeed been garbled.
FYI, I enjoy reading your posts, and the level of analysis you bring to them. (I plan to set aside an entire afternoon to read the "On the Jumping of Sharks" thread, because it will obviously require close attention and considerable thought.) I'm a strong supporter of Loyal Opposition: without questioning and analyzing to see what can be done better, the level of creativity and entertainment can never improve -- regardless of what the project happens to be.
FYI, I enjoy reading your posts, and the level of analysis you bring to them. (I plan to set aside an entire afternoon to read the "On the Jumping of Sharks" thread, because it will obviously require close attention and considerable thought.) I'm a strong supporter of Loyal Opposition: without questioning and analyzing to see what can be done better, the level of creativity and entertainment can never improve -- regardless of what the project happens to be.
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trainer101
- Moderator Manager
- Posts: 2639
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:29 pm
- Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
The Creators apologized that the footage was edited a bit abruptly (leaving no explanation as to how Jonas received the footage). They did not say it's use in the Jonas vid was inappropriate. Cleverly, they have still left it open to discussion without confirming or denying anything.Languorous Lass wrote:CG, I hadn't heard before your post that Miles has acknowledged that the use of the Op footage in Jonas's video was inappropriate. If that's the case, then the issue of who can see what has indeed been garbled.
FYI, I enjoy reading your posts, and the level of analysis you bring to them. (I plan to set aside an entire afternoon to read the "On the Jumping of Sharks" thread, because it will obviously require close attention and considerable thought.) I'm a strong supporter of Loyal Opposition: without questioning and analyzing to see what can be done better, the level of creativity and entertainment can never improve -- regardless of what the project happens to be.
It's ALL connected...