Lonelygirl15

Creators - I think this is a great idea! It will really open up the storytelling possibilities, but also leaves you to continue exploring the pure vlog format that lg15 was founded upon.

I know some people will see this change as radical. And it is, in a way, as compared to lg15's past. But even now YouTube allows posters to put up Private Videos which are viewable only to groups selected by the uploader (such as Family or Friends). Now, the audience can think of themselves as one of those special groups when a "private transmission" is posted.

Reality shows (like Survivor, etc.) often use the technique of the confessional. There, the contestant gets to speak privately to the audience about what is going on on the island/house, etc., and can talk about other show members without everyone knowing. it is a good technique for sharing background information, motivations, etc., and is sometimes the best device for telling or improving the story. In the real world, vloggers are often doing confessionals, because their parent/boss/teacher, etc. is not going to see the video. "My Parents Suck"--the 1st highly successful video from Bree on youtube--could not have existed without the construct that Bree's parents don't go onto youtube. To bring back that option, i think doing private videos are a good idea.

As for the in-character sections of the forum, the percentage of lg15 fans that actually look at those is really small. For purposes of the Breeniverse, we might as well make it a rule that whenever anyone tries to post information from a private video into another character's in-person section, the post -- as if by magic -- only says "meep" in the eyes of that character.

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Edit to Add: To lonelyfan13: according to the early history of the breeniverse, this site was founded by Bukanator, an early lg15 fan.

http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/ind ... =Bukanator\

he posted comments on the earliest bree vlogs, and then the website itself on july 16.

Boy Problems
bukanator (7 months ago)
Guys, I'm starting a lonelygirl15 website, it's up right now and I would love your help making it cooler. There's a forum and links to all her blogs. Hope you enjoy.
www.lonelygirl15.com

Soooo, here I am...I come home from a hard day at the Zen Factory and am treated to this! I almost fell off my branch .

Well now, to the issue at hand. I would like to second Trainer's ideas. More importantly I would also like to second BK's assertions that the In-Character section not just be maintained, but used MORE. This is the power of the phorum and has the potential to make this project really special! I realize that this requires more man-hours, but I think it will pay off with more viewers in the long run...

As to the mechanics, at this point I am just happy the issue is being addressed. Whatever you do, I promise not to bring it up again and I am sure all would agree that would be a GOOD thing . As the lead agent provocateur on this issue, I appreciate that the issue is even being discussed...

I think the key is to make it as easy as possible for the most casual of viewer, and yes that includes those on YT , to be able to follow all of this without a degree from Cal Tech. As an annoying reminder, as of now, the majority of the LG viewers are still viewing the videos from the YT site and it must be easy for them to "get" this stuff. We must always keep in mind that a very small percentage of the viewers are phanatics such as ourselves... We need to "hook" these viewers and get them here, but there has to be bait and it has to taste better than Daniel's leftover fish mashings. Cue the In Character interactions, remember how how many viewers the Bree Chat drew in!

My only other request is that a Pink Merman icon accompany any video that is clearly only meant to be seen by the Gaylien contingent.

Now that curiousGeorge has responded, I feel ready to. By the way, to all who read this, if you want to cut ahead to the meat of what I'm trying to say here, just skip down to the bolded "Bottom line of this rant" at the end of this post.

Again, there's the meat. That said, I'd recommend reading the whole thing as it may provide better understanding of where I cut the meat from.

curiousGeorge wrote:As the lead agent provocateur on this issue, I appreciate that the issue is even being discussed...

Which is why I waited. It would have felt like showing up fashionably late to somebody else's birthday party (only analogy I can think of, even though this would have been arriving early...).


So, my thoughts on this... Well, my first thought is that I agree with a lot of what Renegade has said. Some valid concerns were brought up there, some with easier solutions than others.

Before I go any further Miles, I want to say that I appreciate the effort you guys have put into trying to resolve this (I knew you'd come back to it at some point), but I don't think the idea you've suggested is the answer. It's not that I don't like it, but, as Renegade emphasized so well, there could be some problems.

When I say that, I don't mean there'd be too many out-of-character posts for the mods to reasonably be expected to handle (though that could be an issue for sure) and not because we'd have supporters of OpAPHID or the Culper Ring trying to clue their overlords in on what was up (obviously, to the characters, those posts either wouldn't exist or it would be drivvel), but for these reasons:

It wouldn't be hopelessly complex (I have no doubt that all of us who are interested enough in LG15 to post here day after day would commit the mechanics of a LG15 Homeland Security Advisory System to eternalized memory in minutes), but I think to many of the more casual viewers it could be seen that way. More than that, to many of us obsessives, it could be seen as needlessly complex (my meaning behind this will come into better focus in the final paragraphs of this post). The concept stands the chance of getting away from that vlogging medium you guys have tried so hard to maintain up to now.

I know that in and of itself has produced problems where suspension of disbelief is concerned -- including ones that I've bitched about; for example, the very presence of music in "Fleeing The Watcher," "The Unthinkable Happened," "Bree's Dad Is Dead," "Watch This!" and "How Dumb Am I?"; great editing, especially in "Bree's Dad Is Dead" (it was beautiful), but not very realistic -- and I know that a few months back I might have expressed a sentiment or two along the lines of "Christ, I wish it would just play out like a film from here on"... but since you guys have gone this long while trying to maintain the pretense that this is a vlog, I'd hate for you not to carry it all the way.

I know people talk into their webcams all the time and then decide not to upload the video after all, so you could maybe get away with a few "non-existent" videos while maintaining the vlogging medium there (despite the problems that could bring if, a few videos later, you suddenly realized that something that was said in a "non-existent" video by Daniel is something Bree should have seen; it happens in writing, and if you don't have the luxury that a novelist does of going over everything and making sure continuity remains as you need it before you show it to someone else, that could... well, that could suck)... but I don't know how well "private transmissions" could be adapted to it.

immortal1 brings up a good suggestion for the private transmissions that the video we see could be what was -- for the characters -- a real time discussion taking place in a cam conference. That could replace the need for private transmissions. However, that's only a solution from a storyline point of view. With regard to the ARG, that would greatly reduce its necessity. But at the same time, the very idea of a private transmission would reduce the need for puzzles in the ARG, as Renegade has pointed out.

And to be honest, I'm still not sure that the "I talked into the cam and then decided not to upload this" videos would remain consistent with the vlogging medium you've stuck to for so long, nor would the video conferences. Again referring to Renegade's post, even if it would work in the sense that it didn't seem ridiculus (not like a camera offering a feed into our world suddenly appeared in Daniel's room while he was having a monologue to no one in particular), but it would kind of take away from the fictional world you guys have constructed and the medium.

Of course, if you guys have reached the point that you're okay with stepping away from the pretense that this is all a vlog, and you know you're ready to move on and won't look back with any regrets, I won't try to stop you. As you know from my past posts, I love films. I love the angle of believability the format brings to audience awareness of things the characters don't know, and I love the fact that music that is appropriate to the occasion can be added and it enhances the experience instead of making you think "Wait, he didn't really add music to this, did he?" A bit more of a film element would certainly broaden your options for getting into the characters' heads and generally broaden your options for the kind of story you could tell.

But, again, are you ready to walk away from the vlog format you've stuck to for so long? In terms of LG15 truly being a video blog series, I really don't think it can be had both ways.




Bottom line of this rant

To be honest, since the entire purpose of this brainstorming session seems to be to address how to broaden narrative options while maintaining the plausibility of all this occurring under the pretense of a vlog, I think it would actually end up defeating the purpose. If each video couldn't plausibly be taken as something that was actually uploaded, then why go to the effort of devising such a system in the first place? Ultimately, it would be film/tv and not a vlog anyway.

So, again, to summarize, I think you could do it, and as far as telling the story goes, it would probably give you the opportunity to tell it better. It would certainly give more opportunities to know the characters' thoughts as well. But it can't be done as a vlog.

Again, I know the vlogging medium itself requires a few suspension of disbelief moments from us, but I think if you stay true to it as you have, when the final line is written on LG15, that the music where no one would be adding music and the characters' oft-times apparent inability to see the stupidity of their recording/uploading behavior ("Yellow Snow") will just be regarded as the series' little quirks, and not something widely perceived as anything too negative -- while devising an elaborate, potentially purpose-derailing "non-existent"/"private transmissions" system may be.

By the way, while I know your options are limited right now, just remember what you guys have already managed to do with it. You've already carried us eight months into an interesting story with characters we've come to feel like we know (whether we like them or want to hurt them). You may feel like you've written yourselves into a corner (as the Order's omniscience grew and grew, I feared that may happen), but I think you can write yourselves out of it.

Lurker's impassioned response was eloquent, thoughtful, and much appreciated.

I will be a little more blunt... I think the credibility of a vlog based plot is going to be very difficult at this point, whatever mechanics are employed to try and keep some sense of credibility intact. We have seen the Phoenix of Bree's intelligence in the last vid, and surely she won't be broadcasting all her plans to the Orderites anymore. My guess is that this Phoenix is what prompted this post/poll. Bree is done being stupid. Yeah! BUT, now the plot has to make sense again... And here we are.

I have been lambasted (and no this is not about me) for suggesting that the addition of the ARG elements were the reason why the series lost any kind of logical sensibilities. I stand by this. BUT, not because I don't "like" the ARG or the people involved. It's just that this addition to a series where, by definition, the characters reveal a LOT about themselves is totally at odds with each other. Vlogs are about sharing, the incredibly moving "My Lazy Eye" was about sharing private experiences with the world. I just don't see how the vlog format is compatible with all the "cloak and dagger" material associated with the ARG. It just doesn't fit.

Soooo then things start to fall apart from a logical standpoint. OK, it's time to fix it. Good. But I have to agree that the mechanics of maintaining this SOD are going to be very challenging, especially for newer viewers. I am afraid though that the corner has already been written into. Now we need deux ex machina style mechanics to get us out of it... Tough. I wish I had the magic bullet, I'm Breally sorry I don't. Again, I do appreciate that you are trying though.

Despite my complaining, I keep watching and probably will continue to do so. I am NOT the target demo though and I doubt many who have responded in this thread are... Perhaps the target demo is one who are more interested in video game FPS style delivery than traditional narrative and plot. I do think you need to get a handle on this though as there is a tremendous potential with the ARG elements to tell a really engaging story at this point and a really cool mechanism for fans to interact with the storyline. Even the most rabid fans will get a WTF feeling is this issue is not addressed though...

I view this whole thing as a grand and messy experiment in storytelling and I continue to enjoy watching as it evolves. Good luck.

Well, I tried to warn Gemma in the In Character area. I also tried to warn Lucy.

I guess this format change will stop my shenanigans, but I see it as a boon to the show.

I have one question with this....will the videos start being exclusively on the lg15 website? Or do we just assume that all the characters are seeing the videos here?

Because I have to assume that anyone who watches exclusively on youtube and doesn't come to the forum will not understand the rules of not spilling the beans about the private vlogs/messages. There's nothing to stop them from telling secrets to the characters via comments there. Would that type of thing just be ignored?

Though this whole thing sounds good in theory, it just seems like it will be extremely hard to keep track of what which character knows and what we have to keep quiet.

I think it's a great idea, and it makes me VERRRYYY excited!! But I also think that with this, there will be a few rotten apples who post obvious spoilers into the in-character chat anyway. In case of this, I believe that the In-character forums should just have increased and meticulous moderating. Even if someone posting as a character sees a spoiler message, they should just ignore it.

I just think people should be prepared for these spoilers and hope that they are merely occasional. It's the same principle as you treat forum trolls with: Ignore them and they will go away.

So yes, I love the idea. It would probably call for more moderation of the in-character chat though.


Oh and one final thought, WHAT IF one character wanted to purposely send a message through the audience to another character, or something of that sort. How would you let us know this?

Keep up teh good werk!

EDIT: I love immortal1's (Dr. Immant's) ideas about the faux password protection and video conferencing too!!! Do that, do that!! XD

As far as I'm concerned it will work. If some people cant use their imagination, that's a problem that goes way beyond LG15.

I think maybe you should destroy the character's ability to go online. Seclude them so that the only way to gain knowledge is by conventional old-skool methods ((Ie, snail-mail, telephone, human messengers, etc)) That way they have no idea who is watching their videos and who is saying what about what.....

In my mind the only confuzing part will be keeping track of who knows what, and what we can divulge. The best way it seems is to have some sort of sticky in plot discussion, telling clearly what everyone knows and how. The individual in character's can have a sticky telling what the specific character knows. As long as you do it from the start, and keep on top of updating, it shouldn't be very difficult. Oh, and as someone else daid, the LGPedia should have this listed too.


I see where a lot of people are coming from the "it makes it less realistic" path, but the fact is, it's a series. We need to be able to see everything that's going on. The only part I really care about keeping realistic is to not post any videos that the character who posted doesn't want US to see. If they want to keep a video between themselves and another person, they SHOULD encrypt it. If we get through that, we see the video and can use the information how we please. If a character wants to have a private video to another character that they want us to see, it's like you said.

But, I also think if we have access to the information, we have a right to tell who we please. If tachy sends a plan to foil oppy through encryped video to bree, and we break the encryption, we have a right to tell oppy. You may think this makes a plotline stupid, because we would just tattletail on everyone, but the easy solution is to make the encryption tough enough not to break. It is completly understandable that tachy set up a password kind of thing for communication, and if it's predetermined and something like 244FKLJDckjkje3$$fe'?, we aren't going to guess that. Based on how much you want us to have the information, the encryption could be impossible or very solvable. I think it would add depth and realism to the plot, and have things make sense. Otherwise, there's no way to keep tachy and oppy fans from finding some way to slide around the "keep shut" rule.
Iunno, this could be a lot more work than it's worth, but it would solve the moderating hell problem, and flesh the whole thing out a lot more.

PixieSailor wrote:But, I also think if we have access to the information, we have a right to tell who we please. If tachy sends a plan to foil oppy through encryped video to bree, and we break the encryption, we have a right to tell oppy. You may think this makes a plotline stupid, because we would just tattletail on everyone, but the easy solution is to make the encryption tough enough not to break.

I can see that leading to production hell. What if Tachyon were to send a message to BD&J about some plan to ambush OpAPHID operatives, only for the fans to figure out the password and get to the video ten minutes before the meeting was supposed to take place (in a video that was recorded possibly days earlier, and with two or three other videos taking place afterward already filmed since then)? The Creators would suddenly be faced with either going on with the original plan, no matter how unrealistic it would seem, or scrapping two or three days' worth of shooting.

PixieSailor wrote:It is completly understandable that tachy set up a password kind of thing for communication, and if it's predetermined and something like 244FKLJDckjkje3$$fe'?, we aren't going to guess that. Based on how much you want us to have the information, the encryption could be impossible or very solvable.

It also would need to be something its intended recipient could solve, though, and it would need to be at least somewhat plausible that they could pull it off (especially in Bree, Daniel, or Jonas' case).

PixieSailor wrote:I think it would add depth and realism to the plot, and have things make sense. Otherwise, there's no way to keep tachy and oppy fans from finding some way to slide around the "keep shut" rule.

There's definitely a way (other than just moderating the posts). For storyline purposes, posts that divulged anything characters shouldn't know about should have the same meaning posts addressing the characters' actors do: they wouldn't exist or they'd be incoherent babble.


I still think that, on the whole, the idea may defeat its own purpose. I don't see it being anything too complicated to understand, but it sounds like it's intended to grant a greater sense of logic and believability to the series' vlog format. But when it gets to the point that there's "non-existent" videos giving insight into the characters' thoughts and secret videos from - for example - Daniel to Jonas that Bree, for some reason, can't see, it stops being like a vlog anyway.

Love it! I think this has been needed for some time!

Yes, there might be slight tweaking problems, but as this is both a 'show' and a 'game', I don't think some suspension of belief is unreasonable at all.

If someone mucks up and posts something to someone they shouldn't, oh well, that charecter just doesn't even see it, as if it was never posted. Just make that clear when you make the changes.

If the mods are willing to keep on top of things and either delete or mark posts that are outside of game rules as such, then that's fine. I'm sure you could easliy recruit more mods if necessary.

I think colour coding and using LGPedia to clearly state who sees what will work. And it will totally expend the story-telling ability of this whole game.

Do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it !!!!!!!!!!

So, I have an idea. When you sign up through LG15, there can be a section where you pick which side you're on. So, if you're on Oppy's side, you can only see those private transmissions. Then, for people who aren't registered with the site, they only see the basic videos and not the private transmissions.

Just an idea

BTStars wrote:So, I have an idea. When you sign up through LG15, there can be a section where you pick which side you're on. So, if you're on Oppy's side, you can only see those private transmissions. Then, for people who aren't registered with the site, they only see the basic videos and not the private transmissions.

Just an idea

That would be a neat concept for an ARG - people essentially play against each other and help opposing sides. But then, how would new users know which side to choose without watching the vids. And what if you want to change sides... probably wouldn't work in this case, but I really like the idea!