Lonelygirl15

I think that Jammer's attitude is part of what is wrong here.

We have unrelated third parties telling us what is right or wrong, accurate or inaccurate, about FAN FICTION that we cannot even attribute to the FAN who created it.

That's right, I said it: FAN FICTION. The saddest form of fiction in known existence. (The saddest being those teenagers who write stuff like NSync fan fiction, and it's a long story about their fantasy of just spending a day with the band -- and not even in a sexual way).

It's a slippery slope, because before we got into these debates about what is really Cassieiswatching or not, it was actually fun to at least playfully figure out what was real or not, speculate on things, and patiently wait. But the strange part of it is that if we adhere to the YT Cassie philosophy, what has the game "officially" consisted of?

Two videos, two dead drops, a voicemail box, morse code, and an anagram puzzle. And the voicemail had Cassie's favorite word on it, "WAIT."


When the week of the multiple voicemails was underway, regardless of their official nature or not, this forum seemed pretty alive with HEALTHY discussion -- yes, some of it was about whether or not there was a game-jack or it was in-game, but the tone here was pretty civil.

A LOT of us had fun that week with those clues. A LOT of us don't want to look at something we enjoyed so much and have others tell us it "isn't part of the game cause Cassie said everyone lies and everyone hates her."

Now most of the other CiW wannabe stuff out there has sucked. The MS page is crap, the CiW.com stuff is lame, and I swear that the first Etchings video is one of the SADDEST things I have ever seen.

But if something is good, and you ENJOY it, it does feel like a slap in the face to be talked down to for even mentioning it here if a self-procraimed authority on the third-party CiW FAN FICTION non-canon is going to talk down to you because of their viewpoint on it. Especially when they don't even know who is behind CiW or have any more information about it than you do.

And the reason it is hypocritical is that the same logic is why we are all here in the first place. CiW is NOT officially tied to LG15 and not considered LG15 canon. The same thing Jammer accuses "trolls" of doing here is something all of us are doing when we talk about CiW on the LG15 boards. We're spreading MISINFORMATION about the Cassie character in the LG15 universe based on FAN FICTION that we think is pretty good, so we WANT to believe it is part of the LG15 universe.

Doesn't it seem kind of lame to be so disrespectful to others because they are excited about something that may or may not be equally as valid?

And by the way, I know why this is such an issue for some people: it hurts you inside to have to acknowledge that Etchings is just as official as Cassieiswatching. They are BOTH fan fiction -- FAN FICTION -- tied to the LG15 universe.

The argument then comes down to "it's okay to discuss FAN FICTION if it's good," but that is subjective, which is why there is so much fighting.

It's like different religious philosophies starting wars based on their beliefs even though none of them really know what God is thinking or what side God is on...

None of us truly knows any more than anyone else here when it comes to any reality about CiW.

Cassieiswatching does not define the character of Cassie. Cassieiswatching even did a pretty crappy job of locking down Cassieiswatching -- and others have been able to co-opt the name.

If the LG15 people said they aren't behind it, and the CiW won't come forward to take credit, then officially NO ONE is behind it. If NO ONE is officially behind it, than ANYONE can be behind it or try to take credit in a way.


So I think it really does come down to how much someone enjoys the experience or how it plays into their version of what they WANT to believe is canon.

Maybe we should post a poll, but I'd hazard a guess (that from the general sentiment here), the spectrum looks kind like this:


CiW Canon: "I believe it's official and we can discuss it as such"
^
| First video / Morse Code / Poetry
| Second Video Controversy / Second Clue / Voicemail
| Voicemail Callbacks (Gamejack? In-game gamejack?)
| 1st Dead Drop (Jacked?)
| Random speculation and theories
| Reading into LG15 and adding your own ideas
|
| Any other fanfiction of quality (tjw's vlogs, pcxl videos, sharpdressedman's videos, etc.)
|
|
| MySpace Cassie
| The really, really poor fan fiction
V
Not CiW: "Man, that's the most unofficial looking garbage I've seen since Etchings"


and I think that spectrum is based equally on enjoyment as it is on whatever cryptic comment CiW posted...


The sad truth is, we cannot prove that CiW is part of the LG15 universe any more than someone can prove that any of the assorted CiW is part of CiW. Both "official" sides have denounced involvement and yet I still see threads here of people CONVINCED that CiW is part of LG15.

So if we are going to ban/prevent trolls trying to connect unofficial CiW to CiW, than let us also ban every half-ass theory of how someone "just knows" that CiW is part of LG15.

In fact, all of those threads are just as sad as anyone trying to tie some lame non-CiW FAN FICTION into the CiW FAN FICTION. It's entirely possible CiW happened with ZERO LG15 involvement -- now please shut up about it -- unless jammer is going to start harassing them and calling them trolls the same way he does a number of our message board members. Maybe it's really the CiW team spreading misinformation about "how else could someone have found a well known swimming area, or a well known park in Beverly Hills?"


I mean, really. FAN FICTION. lonelygirl15 FAN FICTION. That is what all of this is about. Tell yourself that, and then ask if you want to admit to anyone that you're an authority on lonelygirl15 FAN FICTION entitled CiW -- you know, so you can keep the continuities straight between the OFFICIAL lonelygirl15 continuity and the FAN FICTION you hold in such high esteem, which the OFFICIAL canon is starting contradict greatly! And yet you want to believe your FAN FICTION is real so badly that you have to attack others for suggesting that some other FAN FICTION might be considered in the same realm...


I mean, really -- let people form their own opinions, if only because everyone has a theory and NO ONE has the information to be correct at the moment. It's all speculation when you get down to it!


Case in point: Can anyone even tell me what we've figured out from the clues so far? We have the heavily religious sounding poem and that Manson video. So if the videos gave us nothing (like an explanation of "I was here") and the latest LG15 video just destroyed any Cassie/religion connection, then we are 3 weeks into an ARG without any sort of real idea of what is going on, a story, etc.

I agree with the earlier comment that CiW is making it up as they go along. I think they did an amazing first video, but that second video, if you really look at it, is just the standard spooky effects: reverse images, sped up reversed audio, and Manson - which stopped being the goto "shocking image" around the time GNR covered that Mason song on their really bad 1994 CD of cover songs. If that wasn't a part of the clue, then how was it relevant exactly? Seems like an oddly over the top and offensive thing to just add in for kicks, dontcha think?


I'm glad that they are taking the days to prepare for Oct 1. Let's hope it inspires everyone to remember why they are here in the first place!

Because there is nothing wrong with GOOD FAN FICTION!

covedweller wrote:

But if something is good, and you ENJOY it, it does feel like a slap in the face to be talked down to for even mentioning it here if a self-procraimed authority on the third-party CiW FAN FICTION non-canon is going to talk down to you because of their viewpoint on it. Especially when they don't even know who is behind CiW or have any more information about it than you do.

And the reason it is hypocritical is that the same logic is why we are all here in the first place. CiW is NOT officially tied to LG15 and not considered LG15 canon. The same thing Jammer accuses "trolls" of doing here is something all of us are doing when we talk about CiW on the LG15 boards. We're spreading MISINFORMATION about the Cassie character in the LG15 universe based on FAN FICTION that we think is pretty good, so we WANT to believe it is part of the LG15 universe.

Doesn't it seem kind of lame to be so disrespectful to others because they are excited about something that may or may not be equally as valid?

Well-stated points. As a newbie, I just recently learned what a troll was. (I still need to figure out what trout is about--I'll do a search) Anyhow, although I am replying to this thread about trolls, I thought that folks were supposed to ignore them. I'm still pretty clueless about all this. I have been having fun, and I do appreciate the many views, theories and ideas that people have shared.

Covedweller, I think I kinda love you. I'm glad I'm not the only one getting sick of the drama llama activity as of late. You raise an excellent point about the phone jack period. That's when I first got here and everyone was really good about not quashing anything then. Weird.

I wish I had read the boards action from last night before I started my thread. It feels sorta trouty now.

Yall wanna hear an old argers opinon on the Manson thing?

The quote where Manson's name was spoken, was something like "Manson stole this song from the beatles, and now we are taking it back!"


....Does anyone get the uh...connection here?

The game was jacked, a clue was stolen. This was Cassie's sublte way of telling the gamejacker "We are done playing around, and are taking this game back."

Also, they were likely trying to scare the game jacker. Hence, the crime scene photos.

It was a message, yes. But it wasn't for us.

tigerlilylynn wrote:You raise an excellent point about the phone jack period. That's when I first got here and everyone was really good about not quashing anything then. Weird.

I think you've just hit the reason squarely on the nose.

Nos wrote:Yall wanna hear an old argers opinon on the Manson thing?

The quote where Manson's name was spoken, was something like "Manson stole this song from the beatles, and now we are taking it back!"


....Does anyone get the uh...connection here?

The game was jacked, a clue was stolen. This was Cassie's sublte way of telling the gamejacker "We are done playing around, and are taking this game back."

Also, they were likely trying to scare the game jacker. Hence, the crime scene photos.

It was a message, yes. But it wasn't for us.

A voice of reason! I <3 you Nos!

I think you've just hit the reason squarely on the nose.

Sorry if I'm not understanding this correctly but if you mean that I found things rosey because I was new then I'll add that at the same time I tried another related board (three guesses and the first two don't count) and was immeadiatly sure that registering was a huge waste of time.

Fan fiction is fine with me, but then I'm also a trek (ToS) and a star wars (ToM) fan. (No, I'm not a trekkie.) I have absolutely no problem with CiW being fan fiction. However, I find it difficult to understand how anyone who takes the creators at their word about CiW has trouble taking CiW at her word about other CiW's.

Based on my own gaming experience, what happened in the beginning was a legitimate gamejack, and I was (pleasantly!) surprised that the game actually recovered so quickly. Games like this can take months to plan and execute, and a single wrench can wreck it permanently. Also, the fact that Cu Roi almost called it quits when he found out that the clue was fake was a very understandable reaction. I'm very glad that he chose to stay. (Thanks, Cu Roi!)

The voicemails after the first are questionable, in my opinion, but our original source says they weren't hers, so I am inclined to believe her or accept serious migraines as a side effect. I prefer the former. I mean we could distrust everything she says, but I'm not willing to open that can of worms, tyvm.

I also have a very hard time believing that the creators would lie to everyone a second time, after all that happened with LG15. So, as far as I'm concerned the creators are not behind CiW, despite persistent rumors to the contrary. However, I also believe it's quite clear that at some point CiW was in direct contact with the creators. In my opinion, the second location just wasn't recognizable from the video, In the Park.

I also agree that all fan fiction based on this series is valid and mentionable, but a lengthy discussion of such still doesn't belong in this specific forum. I watched the AV videos, but haven't watched Etchings, and don't plan on it anytime soon.

These forums exist solely by the good graces of the Admins. Had they chosen differently I suspect that most, if not all, of us would be having CiW discussions in the unfiction forums, which are moderated very differently, and I guarantee they would halt any off-topic posts in unrelated forums without hesitation. The price you pay for great organization!

I have a simple philosophy about CiW.

1. If it didn't come from cassieiswatching@youtube then it doesn't belong as a topic in this forum, which is titled, "Cassieiswatching - YouTube."

2. If cassieiswatching@youtube tells us it wasn't her clue then it isn't part of her game. Whether it's "in game", "out of game", or "TiNaG".

That's my ten cents on the dollar. Take what you want, and leave the rest for someone else.

P.S. I think LGPedia is an awesome step towards organizing what we do know, and I implore everyone to take a look. http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/

tigerlilylynn wrote:

I think you've just hit the reason squarely on the nose.

Sorry if I'm not understanding this correctly but if you mean that I found things rosey because I was new then I'll add that at the same time I tried another related board (three guesses and the first two don't count) and was immeadiatly sure that registering was a huge waste of time.

I meant, I think you found the reason unrelated posts are being squashed.

I agree that the reaction to the coded murder reference (not even visible to the naked eye in the video) was over the top at the time. Mods at Anchor Cove and here reacted like they'd never heard of the horror genre. We may never know what caused that weird overreaction, which oddly moved virtually ALL Cassie discussion from a competing message board to this official one. (Hmm...)

But keep in mind that the two moderators we have now were NOT part of that hysteria. Originally all mention of the Charlie Who Must Not Be Named was a blanket ban that made no sense.

Now my feeling is that discussion of The Family is merely discouraged out of deference to the previous mods and because there has been no reason to follow up on that line of inquiry. "Fascist" and "totalitarian" seem a bit over the top to me.

twjaniak wrote:

soma wrote:
I think it's so silly because that is such a major clue and there is an absolute prohibition on even mentioning it, which is nuts since so much time is wasted on this board arguing over very small things, non-clues, idle speculations and so forth when we actually have major, real clues that we are not even allowed to talk about. It makes the whole thing surreal and a bit of a joke really.

There really is no depth to the Charles Manson clue. There is nothing there worth discussing. The song Helter Skelter was chosen because of its references to playing on a slide (a hint towards the location of the Bible page.) The crime scene photos were chosen because they are a visual link to the song. The sites and the sounds have been a marriage made in pop culture hell for the last 28 years.

That's not necessarily true. Manson was a cult leader. Bree is being indoctrinated into a cult (sorry, ravensgrace, but an occult religion is a cult). The Tate/LaBianca crime scene photos could suggest that cassieiswatching will assume the storyline will progress to a sacrifice (homicide) of Bree and develop the game accordingly.

dVant wrote:That's not necessarily true. Manson was a cult leader. Bree is being indoctrinated into a cult (sorry, ravensgrace, but an occult religion is a cult). The Tate/LaBianca crime scene photos could suggest that cassieiswatching will assume the storyline will progress to a sacrifice (homicide) of Bree and develop the game accordingly.

I agree that we shouldn't discount those scenes just because we find it so distatesful. I have to admit, though, that as much as I like the creepy elements to ciw, I was very turned off by the murder scenes and the simple fact that they can be taken almost as a threat. And that, in itself, is probably why we shouldn't explore it and should hope it's unrelated.

In the end we shouldn't discount anything. Even if it goes against the grain of some peoples narrow minded view of what is a canon clue or not. Yes there are things that don't seem to fit but by completely discounting them you may easily miss something that is needed later.

I thought we learned that when the second clue came out and the bleeding hearts got thier panties in a knot over the picture and several improtant clues were missed.

Broken Kid wrote:

dVant wrote:That's not necessarily true. Manson was a cult leader. Bree is being indoctrinated into a cult (sorry, ravensgrace, but an occult religion is a cult). The Tate/LaBianca crime scene photos could suggest that cassieiswatching will assume the storyline will progress to a sacrifice (homicide) of Bree and develop the game accordingly.

I agree that we shouldn't discount those scenes just because we find it so distatesful. I have to admit, though, that as much as I like the creepy elements to ciw, I was very turned off by the murder scenes and the simple fact that they can be taken almost as a threat. And that, in itself, is probably why we shouldn't explore it and should hope it's unrelated.

I agree to the extent that there is nothing more of the Manson connection to examine unless the next clue makes a similar reference. I spent a hour yesterday reading about Manson on wikipedia, and even cross-referencing the lyrics of some of his songs to the cassieiswatching sonnet (which, by the way, was a big f***ing waste of time). But, I cannot tolerate censorship. I think people should be able to discuss it, preferably with a disclaimer.

"I see you moving your mouth, but all I hear is "Wah wah wah." Kidding, kidding.


Yeesh. I can't believe how heated this discussion has gotten! Take a chill pill. Untwist your panties. Have some tea, play with a pet, watch a DVD-- talk to someone in real life! -- in 10 years time will you be happy that you spent hours a day, every day, ranting and raving about some guy who disagreed with your opinion in a forum? An opinion based on an ARG, a game, fanfiction? Stressing yourself out over someone who simple does not agree with you doesn't get you far. Seriously, is it that important? I guess to some people it must be, but I really do not understand it.

Believe or do not, but no one can tell you what to think or what not to think, what to believe or what not to believe. No ones theory is any more or less valid than anyone elses, nothing about what anyone else says is 'fact' because it can all be interpreted differently. At the end of this, you may have been right, or you may have been barking up the wrong tree. If you let someones opposing theory get to you to the point that you're calling them names-- then you're doing yourself, and your theory, a dis-service. Win supporters on well thought out proof and facts, not on ranting, insults and denial towards people who disagree. Insults are a cowards way out, proof is in the pudding.

And if at the end of the day people don't agree with you? Well tough. I"m sure that most probably don't agree with me, now. *shrug*

Now I like the mods. I think they're good people, and intelligent-- they do the best job they know how to do and I appreciate that. They work hard for us, they aren't paid-- they do it for the site and the fans, and for this thing they care about. They want everyone to stay safe here, understandably.

I'm sure there are sometimes more constructive ways of disagreeing. I think we're better than petty bickering, personally, but what do I know? I'm a troll.... I think

In which case, pay a toll! This is my bridge! =O