Who Can "See" "What" "Where"??

[Slainte]

Hey Langorous Lass I'm just as genius as CG! I used the word catharsis and everything weill you read my posts too? Please? C'mon

[curiousGeorge]

Cleverly, they have still left it open to discussion without confirming or denying anything.

I don't think that is clever at all. It was a mistake, a huge one. Your previous posts had some pretty good logic to them, but this response is not logical. It was a MAJOR WTF moment in the history of the production.

You are not addressing the issue of confusing the casual YT viewer who, whether you want to admit it or not, are the MAJORITY of the viewers and hence potential sources of revenue. Continuity and plot errors are bound to happen if they do not get a rope on this herd of cats.

As for you Langorous Lass, I encourage you to partake in your own level of analysis. There are, way too many, blind apologists here who will not tolerate any kind of analysis or the hint of criticism of the production. Put your armor on if you dare to join in. The "Jumping of the Shark..." is an excellent example, but contains some good stuff. Trainer101 mounted a valiant defense, but even Miles had to admit that there were serious problems in the plot. I fear integrating all the ARG stuff has made a bad situation even worse.

[girlAnachronism]

Personally I find that the integration of OpAphid made this show better. It added quite a lot of depth that the show originally lacked. Yes, there are a few flaws, but you don't need to tear at them until they become gaping wounds. I admit that Daniel's and Bree's inability to see OpA's vids and Tach's is a bit of a problem, but I think that the job of a fan is to help, not hinder...

[covedweller]

It's kind of lame to now be saying "oh, they need to fully integrate them into the plot, minus the ARG elements" or whatever when a bunch of the old school elitists thru their little crybaby hissyfits over the announcement of them being canon in the first place.

All you did with that was paint The Creators into a corner where they probably had to make some distinction in the first place, and now it would make them look bad to do otherwise.

So if you really support OpAphid and Tachyon and want them in the main video stream, storyline, etc. there are better ways to make that happen than throwing it in the midst of a long list of criticisms.

And regardless of who is behind the whole "Gemma is a bad person" plot line, many of us find it the most exciting revelation in quite some time. We don't even know if this was a move on the part of The Creators or the OpAphid/Tachyon people, but it works. Therefore it benefits all of lonelygirl15!

I'd be curious if this led to a bump in traffic to the site as casual YT fans wanted to learn more about why Jonas had the footage. Remember: the OpAphid/Tachyon aspect is better for their business in that it gives fans more reason to visit this site and it allows them a greater and deeper experience within the Breeniverse! The casual fans who don't care won't complain as long as it's redudantly explained in LG15 as well.

[covedweller]

Personally I find that the integration of OpAphid made this show better. It added quite a lot of depth that the show originally lacked. Yes, there are a few flaws, but you don't need to tear at them until they become gaping wounds. I admit that Daniel's and Bree's inability to see OpA's vids and Tach's is a bit of a problem, but I think that the job of a fan is to help, not hinder...

AGREED!

[girlAnachronism]

Personally I find that the integration of OpAphid made this show better. It added quite a lot of depth that the show originally lacked. Yes, there are a few flaws, but you don't need to tear at them until they become gaping wounds. I admit that Daniel's and Bree's inability to see OpA's vids and Tach's is a bit of a problem, but I think that the job of a fan is to help, not hinder...

AGREED!

Thanks! I liked your bit as well.
[/mutual back patting]

[trainer101]

Cleverly, they have still left it open to discussion without confirming or denying anything.

I don't think that is clever at all. It was a mistake, a huge one. Your previous posts had some pretty good logic to them, but this response is not logical. It was a MAJOR WTF moment in the history of the production.

You are not addressing the issue of confusing the casual YT viewer who, whether you want to admit it or not, are the MAJORITY of the viewers and hence potential sources of revenue. Continuity and plot errors are bound to happen if they do not get a rope on this herd of cats.

They did not say that the inclusion of the footage was a mistake; merely that they neglected to have the character “Jonas” give an explanation. As soon as the vid was introduced, the speculation began as to where it came from. At that point I do think it was clever to let the speculation continue. It added another angle from which to view the “Jonas” character. Does he know more than he lets on?

With regard to the YT viewers, I will admit that I sometimes forget that there are viewers outside of our little universe that don’t have the benefit of the insight this forum provides. One of the forum members is currently working on a couple of ideas that will hopefully be available soon to help provide some insight to the casual viewer.

In addition, since the introduction of OpAphid as an official part of the LG15 storyline, hints have been included in the LG videos that there are other parts to this story. Replies to the vids have pointed people to the exact places to look for additional content. But as the old adage states “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”.

Even Danielbeast vids are now posted on the lonelygirl15 YT page because some viewers STILL don’t seem to be aware that his character posts separately (as evidenced by subscriber numbers).

It seems the only viable solution is a series of plot summary videos which the Creators have acknowledged is a good idea. The questions are, who’s going to make them and how do you get YT viewer to view them?

[Lurker]

Cleverly, they have still left it open to discussion without confirming or denying anything.

I don't think that is clever at all. It was a mistake, a huge one. Your previous posts had some pretty good logic to them, but this response is not logical. It was a MAJOR WTF moment in the history of the production.

You are not addressing the issue of confusing the casual YT viewer who, whether you want to admit it or not, are the MAJORITY of the viewers and hence potential sources of revenue. Continuity and plot errors are bound to happen if they do not get a rope on this herd of cats.

They did not say that the inclusion of the footage was a mistake; merely that they neglected to have the character “Jonas” give an explanation. As soon as the vid was introduced, the speculation began as to where it came from. At that point I do think it was clever to let the speculation continue. It added another angle from which to view the “Jonas” character. Does he know more than he lets on?

I agree with Trainer that it was a good idea to let the speculation continue once they had made the mistake. The mistake itself was obviously not clever, but they handled it well (so far). We'll see if they make good use of it ultimately, though.

It seems the only viable solution is a series of plot summary videos which the Creators have acknowledged is a good idea. The questions are, who’s going to make them and how do you get YT viewer to view them?

Advertising them from a video in the main lonelygirl15 account on YT seems like the best way to me.

I admit that Daniel's and Bree's inability to see OpA's vids and Tach's is a bit of a problem, but I think that the job of a fan is to help, not hinder...

Pointing out their mistakes is helping them, actually. If they're doing something poorly, they need to be told. Constructive criticism is the way to making things better. To quote Languorous Lass:

I'm a strong supporter of Loyal Opposition: without questioning and analyzing to see what can be done better, the level of creativity and entertainment can never improve -- regardless of what the project happens to be.

It's kind of lame to now be saying "oh, they need to fully integrate them into the plot, minus the ARG elements" or whatever when a bunch of the old school elitists thru their little crybaby hissyfits over the announcement of them being canon in the first place.

All you did with that was paint The Creators into a corner where they probably had to make some distinction in the first place, and now it would make them look bad to do otherwise.

While I think it was important that they addressed Op's relevance when it was brought in as canon (just so everyone would be clear on what its canonicity would imply), as I said in this thread from Concerns and Complaints, I think they would be making a bigger mistake now to reduce the level of its importance than they would be if they just acknowledged that they made an error when they said everyone didn't need to watch Op or Tach.

I'm personally glad to see Tach and Op's videos becoming highly relevant to LG15 (and they definitely have become so), and I think the right thing for the Creators to do would be to feature them more prominently -- even if that means admitting they made a mistake. Think about it: either they remain relevant like they are right now, and the Creators just have them featured as prominently as the vlogs, or they suddenly decline in relevance, making them seem not just peripheral but pointless (and that would be sure to annoy even the dedicated ARG players).

[curiousGeorge]

Now we are getting somewhere!

Summarys of vids: Excellent.

DB vids posted on the LG15 Channel: Excellent.

Insults: Not so excellent and a poor excuse for rational analysis.

Moving forward.

The creators belatedly realized that CiW was BrandJack of the worst kind and distanced themselves from it. They realized that the majority of the phorum posts at that time were dedicated to CiW and the main story was not being paid much attention by the Cassites. They were losing control of the LG15 Brand and cut it out with surgical precision. They have some experience with this . Good move, albeit unpopular with the Cassites at the time.

The Lesson Learned(?): Control the story. It sounds as if they are doing this by having a creative team writer be involved in the OP and Tachy offerings. Yay!

I concur with Lurker that it was a big mistake for them to proclaim it was not necessary for viewers to watch the ARG vids and then suddenly integrate them into the plot so heavily. Hence, the WTF moment referenced above resulted. I think they should just bite the bullet, admit they made a mistake and fully integrate them. Again, it's all about controlling the story.

I realize that too many of you this would be making this "idiot proof" viewing, but they need to GROW the audience if they want this to continue. I won't go on a long dissertation about the project's finances, but it is common knowledge that the status quo is not working so well on that front. They can not afford to lose ONE viewer and need to gain a LOT more.

So, now we are at a crossroads. Will they start posting OP and Tachy vids (with numbers) on the mothership site?

How about on the LG15 YT channel?

ETA: And back to my original question. They need to explain Who Can See What Where. It's not that hard of a concept to understand, the devil is in how to do this...

[curiousGeorge]

With regard to the YT viewers, I will admit that I sometimes forget that there are viewers outside of our little universe that don’t have the benefit of the insight this forum provides.

Again, good. I personally would love to have the production have fifty times as many viewers and participants and the creative team all have new Porches. I hope Jess and Yousef get Jaguars, they deserve it!

I would also like Telegraph Ave. to produce a proven product that is capable of generating revenue so that other projects like this can be produced. It is indeed cool stuff. We are witnessing the growth of something pretty special, I just want them to get it right. Getting it right means delivering a quality product, in any marketplace.

[SharpI]

This stuff makes my poor monkey brain hurt...

I am a little less forgiving, actually. I think it is very bad form for the Creators to make us try to puzzle this stuff out. It's gotta be REALLY off-putting for newbies. If the Creators are pondering on ways to grow the viewership, clearing this up might be a good place to start.

What is puzzling about Tachyon's Gemma videos or even the last two OpAphid videos?

It seems incredibly odd that people would spend so much time posting these critiques when they could simply watch these videos in the same amount of time.

All relevant information has been redundantly restated in the main LG15 video stream. Just because there is this added bonus that gives a little more depth in the Tachyon and OpAphid videos themselves doesn't mean they are required.

If you feel you're missing out so much, check them out. The main LG15 stream is complete in its chronicling of events, these other streams seem to give the same events but from different perspectives.

My point is not that it takes some work to get the info. My point is that by making viewers track Out-Of-Game info, they destroy the potential for In-Game immersion in the LG15 story. IOW, If I have to continually pop out of the story to figure out if a character can see or not see what I am seeing, then immersive enjoyment *poof*

Some people have a high tolerance for this sort of IG/OOG split; a few even relish it. But I agree with CG, most people hate it, and for good reason: they come to be immersed in the story, not to be yo-yoed.

[AniDonia]

Cool down, kids. Here's a cookie:




That said, I also agree with girlAnachronism. The plot was getting boring until Tachy's videos of Gemma showed up, and now it's totally yummy. 'Spose that's why I log in so much these days.

I think that since the ARG elements are getting to be so huge, they should make them more visible. On the main page--because those who frequent LG15.com are arguably more hardcore fans than those on YouTube--they should be posted on the main page rather than hard-to-access side replies. If they are cannon they should be treated as such, instead of being relegated to the sidelines with their very useful new developments (i.e. Gemma being evil footage) pasted in awkwardly in the core videos just to appease the fans who refuse to follow the ARG.

The problem of YouTube (that is, if you think it's such a huge problem... I'm personally fine with it. )

1. Post all the videos under lonelygirl15, including OpA and Tachy

2. Create a special channel just for all the LG15 videos/ARG so people can subscribe to that and get their Breeniverse all in one dose

3. Post all the core characters' videos under Bree's lonelygirl15 account. Post the OpA/Tachy videos on her profile page.

4. Post all of the supporting characters/ARG videos on her profile page.


That said, I'm thinking this post should go more in the comments and complaints section of the forum, as it's really getting off the Plot subject and really becoming more about what some fans think the Creators *should* do with their production.

Being able to sit back and enjoy and analyze the show is not being "apologetic". Unless you're a Creator, you REALLY don't know that a lot of the seeming plot holes really are what they seem. For example--Gemma's horrendous accent and overly stereotypical "British" lingo... it sounded like bad writing for months, until *surprise* she wasn't in London at all.

Whew.... I'm out.

[robtomorrow]

curiousGeorge,

I just want to say I salute your efforts to bring some structure to this question.

I brought up the question a number of times in my comments to the videos, but I was being facetious, I didn't expect an answer. I think we have moved beyond expecting reasonable answers, we just have to accept that in Bree's world things don't make sense.

[covedweller]

Thinking about it, it all makes sense from Bree's POV because it's called LONELYGIRL15.

Showing the OpAphid/Tachyon videos in the Bree/Jonas/Daniel channel doesn't make as much sense from that POV.

I think that was the intent of the original statement by The Creators. OpAphid/Tachyon is a spin-off in that it gives us another POV on the same story and events. At times, we learn things Bree/Jonas/Daniel haven't learned, and if they do learn it or become aware of the same facts, that is reflected in their POV channel.

The challenge is the realism factor in that Bree/Daniel/Jonas refer to this site and the main channel is their POV. To highlight the other POV mid-stream doesn't make sense from their perspective. At least not if this site is going to be used for any other in story mentions as a hub for them to call home on the web. Same with YouTube. Why would Bree/Daniel/Jonas be showing the latest OpAphid videos on their channels?

Tachyon, however, does make sense to integrate since she is on their side. But, she might have more solo adventures that wouldn't be as relevant so that could distract as well.

Now that I think about it more, it's kind of like comic books too. Different X-men teams have stories that often give you a different perspective on the same events, but they each experience them differently.

Really, I think this addresses the initial concern of who sees what and why (along with quite a few precedents).

The real issue seems to be more of how to integrate the bad guys POV into the story if the website is supposedly run by the good guys.

Remember, every character here shoots their own videos. It isn't like the typical video format where the camera is never acknowledged shooting from a 3rd person perspective. This show has no 4th wall in that way because each character addresses the camera quite often.

If integration is what you seek, solid ideas in that regard would probably be the best way to make it happen!

[robtomorrow]

The topic has shifted off the who can see what where, to how to integrate the OpAphid and Tachyon videos.

covedweller,

I think something you said makes sense.... if Bree, Daniel and Jonas are considered one channel then OpAphid and Tachyon need their own channel instead of lumping them into the response videos where they are very hard to find especially for new people, with clear and easy to find links on both channels so people can navigate between the two.

Of course there is the question of which channel Gemma belongs, since she started off as being in the Bree, Daniel, Jonas camp but seems now to be in the OpAphid camp.

And now that I think of it, Tachyon is a problem too, she is the priciple ARG conduit, and was apparently part of OpAphid but seems now to be helping the Bree, Daniel, Jonas camp.

And Jonas, actually we're not all that sure where his loyalties lie yet either..

Oh well nevermind it's too confusing.