Flame Wars

AutoPilate · Post by **AutoPilate** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 pm

::yawns::

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:08 pm

Taig...even though ifind most of your arguments ....well orginized this:

I find it appropriate that your avatar reflects an animal whose greatest joy seems to come from flinging its own feces and jumping from tree to tree...since your contributions to this forum appear to be swinging from thread to thread flinging your "intellectual" waste at intelligent and well-meaning individuals.

is the flaming i'm talking about

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:25 pm

now on to what i was coming in to say:

I'm happy that we've (somewhat) been able to discuss this in a serious manner. As for the people that have come in here and disrupted the conversation, please feel free to note that there are a few of us that are having a serious discussion about this problem as it is a prolem and there are a group of people that are making this problem a habit in th forum. Your disruptions are not helping the cause. (I'll ask the moderators to delete any random posts if they would be so kind)

Now i've been in discussion with a few of you, and there seems to be a general feeling that I should post what I wrote up. Well...i've posted it in my blog. And it is a public blog, so feel free to read if you would like.

As for a suggestion, I've suggested this before and will suggest it again. I HIGHLY recommend that the moderators, administrators and creators sit down together in chat room and discuss this issue. There need to be a temperory consequence put into ASAP.
Remember when you were little and you did something wrong, your parents grounded you or put you on a time out? I suggest time outs for some people. While this may drive certain people away from the site, it will also weed out the people who are here to be serious and the people who are here to flame/disrupt productivity.

I've heard some interesting rumors over the past couple of months about this certain group from some people who are "friends"/"aquaintances", they are not pleasant, and I wish not to share them, but it is immature action and words being thrown around by well respected members of this community.

I would also like to point out, that due to this constant immature harrassment we have lost many respectable members, INCLUDING (even though he gets on many a nerv) the highest responder to the series, Lordgreystoke422. No, he has not put me up to mentioning him, and i'm mentioning him very hesitantly, because his approach in doing things does not help the flaming. But I do know that the SAME select few posters in the forums are the same select few that make him feel not welcome in general in the breeniverse. Does he stop, no. He cares about this show and wishes it well, BUT the fact that one of our most respectable members (although some find him annoying) is gone due to this exsact problem.

Doesn't that seem wrong??

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:28 pm

I believe we've lost quite a few due to this very thing, smiley. I do, I do. Certain aspects that tie in to this are things that are making me wish there was another forum I could participate in...except there are people I like here too much.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:30 pm

Kasdeja wrote:I believe we've lost quite a few due to this very thing, smiley. I do, I do. Certain aspects that tie in to this are things that are making me wish there was another forum I could participate in...except there are people I like here too much.

there are other forums that people have been leaving this place for.
SOme of them are jsut little sections in other discussion boards, but there is anchor cove and GC new message board that I peronally know 5 LURKERS (yup lurkers not posters) got so fed up with watching the BS going on left us and went elsewheres.

*I'm going to ask for the moderators to watch this thread carefully since the "Angry" thread has been locked. I would wish for this thread to stay open and productive, instead of a flame war itself. Thanks!*

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:58 pm

Killthesmiley wrote: Remember when you were little and you did something wrong, your parents grounded you or put you on a time out? I suggest time outs for some people. While this may drive certain people away from the site, it will also weed out the people who are here to be serious and the people who are here to flame/disrupt productivity.

There is only one problem with that...we aren't children. I actually find it more then a little degrading that I might be punished for expressing my feelings. Last time I checked, I wasn't a child. As a matter of fact, I have two children of my own and I never punish them for being true to their feelings.

If we choose to get in a pissing match with someone, that really is our perogative. We choose to get in the match. It doesn't just fall on us out of the sky. I'm not going to pretend that all these threads aren't the result of what happened between Panda, Bethy, myself and a few others. I knew exactly what I was doing when I was posting back and forth with Bethy as did she, I'm sure. And while Bethy and I will never be friends, we will be able to be civil to each other.

As much as everyone would wish that flaming would go away and that the forum would be full of nothing but goodness, light, fuzzy bunnies and rainbows, it just isn't going to happen. When you get a group of intelligent people together who firmly believe that their view or position on something is correct, tempers are bound to flare and things can and will get messy, especially with the anonymity of the internet. I wish that I had some great advice or sage words regarding this to pass on, but I don't. I just feel like, in real life, you have to deal with the fact that there will be some unpleasantness.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:59 pm

Kasdeja, I was just about to respond to you on the other thread to say I agree, that it would be a good idea to get a fresh start on the conversation with a less offensive title for the thread. Looks like Bk has directed the conversation here.

Hi Kelly, I agree. I would like to see this thread stay open.

sphinx · Post by **sphinx** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:09 pm

I can't be the only one who sees that it is the same small handful of people that are constantly complaining about this.

Could it be, instead of complaining about the result, it is more important to realize the cause?

If you think everyone is repeatedly ganging up on you, the constant factor in this is "you".

How easy it is to assume the role of victim rather than perpetrator or instigator.

milowent · Post by **milowent** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:12 pm

Killthesmiley wrote:there are other forums that people have been leaving this place for. SOme of them are jsut little sections in other discussion boards, but there is anchor cove and GC new message board that I peronally know 5 LURKERS (yup lurkers not posters) got so fed up with watching the BS going on left us and went elsewheres.

i find it sad that there are people who don't feel comfortable posting on this board. it's not like this is a new internet phenomenon, however; boards always go in cycles like this. its good that there are posters who care about these issues.

this forum will always be the 1st forum where new fans will go (and i say this contentedly though i'm also a mod at Anchor Cove). perhaps we should add a newbies section? such a section wasn't really necessary when we were ALL newbies, but i'm sure new folks would like a place where they can ask questions like "who's jonas?" or "what happened to gemma" or "what's an ARG?" without getting responses like "read the forum!!!" (not that everyone responds that way, or that those who do intend ill by it, its just that this board has to support people with a 'diversity of experience' with lg15)

Toad · Post by **Toad** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:27 pm

Ziola wrote:
Killthesmiley wrote:
As much as everyone would wish that flaming would go away and that the forum would be full of nothing but goodness, light, fuzzy bunnies and rainbows, it just isn't going to happen. When you get a group of intelligent people together who firmly believe that their view or position on something is correct, tempers are bound to flare and things can and will get messy, especially with the anonymity of the Internet. I wish that I had some great advice or sage words regarding this to pass on, but I don't. I just feel like, in real life, you have to deal with the fact that there will be some unpleasantness.
I guess I was one of the "others" you mentioned.
All my post were deleted though so I guess I don't exist anymore.

Everything isn't goodness and light and it should never be if we are to have discussions that actually mean something or resolve issues.

I can take it like any other.
I can dish it out as well.
The issue I have is the cliques and ganging up.
Also the misuse of power, be it from authority or as a gang of "friends" feeling they are supporting someone else.
The high handed tactics used by those who feel an innate power over those who are newer or are not part of a group to silence objection of any kind.

I am a member of other forums that have quite heated discussions at times.
People step back let them hash it out and they generally sort things out given a page or two of crankiness.
Here it seems that if you disagree with an individual you are welcoming the disdain and ridicule of everyone who has a friendship with this poster.
The quickness of people to jump to the defence of an individual without enough discussion to even flesh out the guts of the argument (or even find out if there is an argument in my case) leaves reason in the dust.

I have been watching this with interest and I don't think I have all the answers but letting people sort things out without piling on might help a little bit.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming
Just my $0.02

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:28 pm

sphinx wrote:I can't be the only one who sees that it is the same small handful of people that are constantly complaining about this.

Could it be, instead of complaining about the result, it is more important to realize the cause?

If you think everyone is repeatedly ganging up on you, the constant factor in this is "you".

How easy it is to assume the role of victim rather than perpetrator or instigator.

See, I see many posts like this one here when someone brings up an issue...and I find passive aggression much more offensive than straight out aggression. Bottom line needs to be established for some people, just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean there isn't one. Sometimes you just don't see it, sometimes you are part of it. That does not excuse pushing the blame on others without at least conceding that maybe, just maybe the issue or complaint really just doesn't affect you.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:31 pm

Ziola wrote: There is only one problem with that...we aren't children. I actually find it more then a little degrading that I might be punished for expressing my feelings. Last time I checked, I wasn't a child.

From my observation, there appears to be two camps on this board. Those who enjoy jousting and jibing each other and who build a close camaradarie this way, and those who find this offensive, and appreciate a gentler approach.

These are both valid approaches in the adult world. The challenge is in finding a way to merge these two approaches in a constructive way, rather than letting one win out over the other.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:32 pm

milowent wrote:
Killthesmiley wrote:there are other forums that people have been leaving this place for. SOme of them are jsut little sections in other discussion boards, but there is anchor cove and GC new message board that I peronally know 5 LURKERS (yup lurkers not posters) got so fed up with watching the BS going on left us and went elsewheres.
i find it sad that there are people who don't feel comfortable posting on this board. it's not like this is a new internet phenomenon, however; boards always go in cycles like this. its good that there are posters who care about these issues.

this forum will always be the 1st forum where new fans will go (and i say this contentedly though i'm also a mod at Anchor Cove). perhaps we should add a newbies section? such a section wasn't really necessary when we were ALL newbies, but i'm sure new folks would like a place where they can ask questions like "who's jonas?" or "what happened to gemma" or "what's an ARG?" without getting responses like "read the forum!!!" (not that everyone responds that way, or that those who do intend ill by it, its just that this board has to support people with a 'diversity of experience' with lg15)

I think a section to welcome those who are new is a good one, honestly. When many of us came here we were all new...but we've seen waves of new people since...and we might take for granted how confusing it can be the first time you enter here...knowing where to post. I think a beginner or newbie area would be great.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:34 pm

Luminous wrote:
Ziola wrote: There is only one problem with that...we aren't children. I actually find it more then a little degrading that I might be punished for expressing my feelings. Last time I checked, I wasn't a child.
From my observation, there appears to be two camps on this board. Those who enjoy jousting and jibing each other and who build a close camaradarie this way, and those who find this offensive, and appreciate a gentler approach.

These are both valid approaches in the adult world. The challenge is in finding a way to merge these two approaches in a constructive way, rather than letting one win out over the other.

I think I'm more middle ground...I don't think things such as heated debates and 'regular' arguments should be grounds for punishment or thread locking, etc...but I see the difference between those and people just totally flaming and even ganging up on others. I don't think that sort of thing should be allowed. It's just not necessary, honestly. Now, if someone wants a thread all to themselves to do the flaming...I really don't care. However, I find it offensive to my eyes to pick through that on a thread not dedicated to that. I hope this post makes sense, lol.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:37 pm

Kasdeja wrote:
milowent wrote:
Killthesmiley wrote:there are other forums that people have been leaving this place for. SOme of them are jsut little sections in other discussion boards, but there is anchor cove and GC new message board that I peronally know 5 LURKERS (yup lurkers not posters) got so fed up with watching the BS going on left us and went elsewheres.
i find it sad that there are people who don't feel comfortable posting on this board. it's not like this is a new internet phenomenon, however; boards always go in cycles like this. its good that there are posters who care about these issues.

this forum will always be the 1st forum where new fans will go (and i say this contentedly though i'm also a mod at Anchor Cove). perhaps we should add a newbies section? such a section wasn't really necessary when we were ALL newbies, but i'm sure new folks would like a place where they can ask questions like "who's jonas?" or "what happened to gemma" or "what's an ARG?" without getting responses like "read the forum!!!" (not that everyone responds that way, or that those who do intend ill by it, its just that this board has to support people with a 'diversity of experience' with lg15)
I think a section to welcome those who are new is a good one, honestly. When many of us came here we were all new...but we've seen waves of new people since...and we might take for granted how confusing it can be the first time you enter here...knowing where to post. I think a beginner or newbie area would be great.

I agree, this is an excellent idea. I know it would have been very helpful for me.