Lonelygirl15

I'd be more likely to click for a cute guy.

Broken Kid wrote:

wintermute wrote:

EliCash wrote:Consider this thread a pre-emptive (kind of) move to make sure it doesn't become the rule.

What I didn't make clear was that yes, I see your point... I just think it's a little premature to assume that it will become the rule. It never hurts to voice a differing opinion, though. And I know all about having a differing opinion I think most here just don't agree with you. Some are being nicer about it than others

I don't disrespect your opinion, EliCash. And I totally understand the danger of changing something... as a former journalist, it was driven into our heads that you don't doctor a photo to change the appearance of real events, and even though this is entertainment, a semblance of that rule should still apply.

I think my concern was the way you approached it... instead of asking if people thought it was a concern and expressing your own concerns, it came across as immediately accusing the Creators of scamming fans and tricking people to improve their own financial outlook. While that's a possibility, the tone is what convinced me to respond with my own opinions to the contrary.

Agreed.

And instead of respecting others opinions, you treat them as dumb just because they don't agree with you. And everytime someone does answers your questions you completely ignore the fact that they answer and continue on like you know everything, like you did to me. Calm down. We see you're point, but you're just approaching it the wrong way.

Kasdeja wrote:I'd be more likely to click for a cute guy.

I hear that! Lol.

And instead of respecting others opinions, you treat them as dumb just because they don't agree with you. And everytime someone does answers your questions you completely ignore the fact that they answer and continue on like you know everything, like you did to me. Calm down. We see you're point, but you're just approaching it the wrong way.

I really don't want this thread to be about me. I already addressed the issue of my approach. Please see my last post.

I'd be more likely to click for a cute guy.

Haha. Even though Daniel is a more central character than Jonas, and even though Daniel has been around longer, I still think it says something that Daniel has twice as many subscribers.

It's probably not fair to compare them, so let me bring in Gemma (since she's as much as a character as Jonas).

She has far more subscribers than Jonas. Based on this substandard and completely unscientific measure, I think guys are more likely to take the "cuteness" of somebody into consideration when clicking.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Daniel has been there from the beginning. He's at a completely different level of importance when it comes to the story than Gemma.

Yet Gemma is surprisingly close in number of subscribers.

I appreciate Daniel's looks more than Jonas'. Not saying Jonas isn't a cutie, just personal preference. But I'm OT, I see what you are saying.

Let me also add that the image would have been of a car, not of one of the guys, had the Bree picture not been spliced in. So in my attempt at getting inside the minds of the Creators....

This is only ***my guess*** as to the way these events unfolded.

- They make a good video.
- They want lots of views.
- They know on YT the image shown on "Most viewed" page will be of the back of a car.
- They know people viewing "Most Viewed" likely haven't even heard of LG.
- They know those people will be more likely to click if there's a picture of a "cute girl" than the back of a car.
- They decide to splice the Bree image in, but only after thinking of a way to explain how it can fit with the plot (aka having Daniel explain in the description).
- They believed that as long as they can fit it into the plot, it's fine.

I don't think they considered the implications, honestly. I'd be curious to know what they think, after thinking about the issue.

I guess some people just want some eye candy, lol.

EliCash wrote:I don't think they considered the implications, honestly.

I think this is becoming a common theme

I think it's a problem with the medium, not The Creators. To get the interactivity they want, they can't think too far in advance unless it's in pretty general terms. I'd imagine they have story ideas, but aren't tied to anything specific. This leaves lots of room for them to adapt the story to where they feel like taking it at any given moment. But it also leaves lots of room for errors in judgment of how the fans are going to react to things like this.

'mute

I think it is great that a topic like this (inserting a thumbnail to get more views) gets so many comments! It's a great story if it gets all kind of discussion: from adoration to complaints.

LG15 has something for everyone to talk about!

HazelButtercup wrote:I think it is great that a topic like this (inserting a thumbnail to get more views) gets so many comments!

Me too.

Kudos for EliCash for taking a position and sticking to his guns, and trying to argue his points rationally.

I personally was not upset by the use of the center pic for this video, and the posting of the video on Bree's account. I certainly noted those things when the video came up on youtube, but I was OK with it because, as others have said, it appears it was meant to be for this video only because it was important, and daniel admitted he did it in the video description. After 108+ videos, this is the 1st time it was done. The Creators are proud of this one and want to try to promote it.

I have two other justifications to add:

1. YouTube's stats are being completely messed up by people gaming the system. JayHank/JayHenry did a great analysis of this a few weeks ago. People who are creating fake subscribers, using autorefreshers, and making trash fake videos (i.e., "britney naked") are pushing legitimately worthy videos down the charts. At youtube, you have 48 crucial hours after a video is posted to try to be popular enough to make it high enough in the charts to have a prayer of making the 'most viewed' charts for the week or month. The gaming is really hurting legitimate content creators, driving down their views from casual viewers.

Look at the most viewed videos this week: http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=mp&t=w&c=0&l=
-- Number 3 is a 3 second video of "saddam hanging" which is a still photo of saddam which sticks its toungue out. 795,000 views and counting. we all know these kind of britney / paris, steve irwin death footage ,etc., videos pollute youtbue regularly now.
-- Most of the current top 20 are saddam related clips, many fakes.
-- the 1st legitimate youtube-based video is Daniel's Roadtrip video - but its #13. 4 months ago, it would have been top 5, i bet.

So, since youtube either cannot or refuse to fix these gaming problems, should the Creators sit back and do nothing? I don't think so. They have to balance their credibility with a need to maintain their audience high enough to make this project self-sustaining (if it can be done).

2. Daniel is supposed to be a youtube vlogger, right? The use of a choice middle pic is fairly common among vbloggers - not all the time, but once in awhile. So Daniel's behavior in this case was consistent with his role. (The fact that vloggers don't usually post videos of shootings involving them and their friends, well, you need to forget about that part.)

[P.S. I guess this thread was started in Plot Discussion and then moved to Complaints at some point? Perhaps it better belongs in Complaints, but I find it amusing that a negative-started thread is much more likely to be moved from plot discussions into "Complaints" than a positive thread is to be moved from Plot Discussions into ... oh, well, there's no Compliments section, so i guess it stays in plot discussion ]

Lots of great points, milowent. I'll take issue with one of your justifications, although you still have the others to stand on.

I share the frustration over people trying to game the system, which you cite. There are two options, I guess.

1. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. That seems to be what you suggest, although with my own "spin" added.

2. Hold LG to higher standards than trash fake videos.

Hopefully YouTube gets their act together and figures out a way to deal with this. THAT would be the IDEAL solution. There are plenty of ways I can think of for them to do this.

Wow Eli!!! What a warm and wonderful fire you started and kept burining!

I don't know if you want my support or not - some people think I am a little abrasive - but god damn it! you did a great job!

Even as things started to crumble into "I thnk I would click on a cute guy" you stuck to it.

I am impressed and inspired.

So I decided to check out the actual number behind this, and now I'm curious as to how long the Creators have been editing video with the "preview image" in mind.

First off, if you look at Bree's and Daniel's YouTube pages, it's definitely clear that her image has a HUGE effect on how many views it gets.

I mean huge.

But now I'm curious. Is it a coincidence that Daniel's last two videos (three if you count the one he posted for Bree with the spliced image) have an image of Bree as the "preview image?"

Any thoughts?

Personally, I'm perfectly okay with editing a video with this image in mind. I think it only crosses the line when it's out of nowhere, like in the video that has been subject to debate here.

But I would still be interested to know if Bree's videos and Daniel's videos have been edited with this in mind.

Because it clearly makes a huge difference.

On Bree's YouTube page, check out the views of Warwalking vs the others.

On Daniel's YouTube page, check out the views of the latest two compared to the others.

Note: I am a proponent for editing videos with this in mind, just so long as it isn't "out of nowhere" and fits with the ACTUAL content of the video.

Thanks for addressing this issue Elicash. I respect your position, however, you did kind of come across the wrong way with the saying the creators were doing things by "scamming" and "tricking" people. You have clarified your intentions now and i consider your opinions to be that of a true fan only wanting to make a call on something you feel was wrong. I know you just wanted a civilized debate about this and i believe we all have went a little overboard, but overall i think we now have come to a balanced, calm, and interesting conversation. I am glad we have a democracy here and not a dictatorship where we can discuss all aspects of an issue.

I do agree Eli that:

- this should not be a common occurence in future vids
- it may have come across as being misleading in some ways
- i tend to agree to an extent that this was done to gain more viewers

I do not agree that:

- the Creators are scamming
- that this alteration is damaging or a major change to the overall plot or story of LG15
- as far as gaining viewers i tend to think it was done more to highlight the importance of the video while at the same time drawing interest. It was not just a cheap way of pulling in fans. Instead of tricking people it was more of a new attempt which the creators have said they would try during the course of making the series.

I believe these quotes from others sum things up well for my views.

Broken Kid wrote:
More likely, they realize one of the inherant limitations of YouTube - that it uses as a graphic the middle of the video. And not wanting a blurry, meaningless shot, they put in a shot of Bree. Big deal. It didn't affect the story they're telling. At worst, it's a slight disruption of the flow of the video.

wintermute wrote:
Personally, I can live with they way they did this, if it doesn't become the rule instead of the exception. I will, for the moment, suspend disbelief and trust Daniel's explanation. A single frame doesn't make it a completely different video. It's the same video with a frame added to overcome a shortcoming of YouTube.

If it becomes the rule? Then that's a whole different story...

'mute

HazelButtercup wrote:I think it is great that a topic like this (inserting a thumbnail to get more views) gets so many comments! It's a great story if it gets all kind of discussion: from adoration to complaints.

LG15 has something for everyone to talk about!

Thankyou