[DISCUSSION] A new theory about the symbols

[Loki]

I'm not so sure about the "in charge of OpAphid" part. But the rest of your idea, Gawain, seems fairly sound... or at least as sound as the rest of the ideas presented here.

I think I agree with tilt's theory that each of the four symbols represents a "pillar" within OpAphid, especially since 1.) Op has only ever used the Watchers' symbol... but her videos have been mostly related to intelligence gathering-type things, which would make sense and 2.) the various symbols, with the theories attached to them at this time, would not come even close to a logical division of labors, so to speak, within a large organization such as we believe the Order to be. Such an organization would logically require:

1. Intelligence (probably OpAphid)
2. Legal (both interior and external, ie. law for inside the Order and law for dealing with the outside world)
3. Enforcement/Defense (to deal with those who break the rules inside, and to keep those who are not on the inside from harming those who are)

That is probably the most efficient division that I can come up with right now, although the more sections you add, the less efficient it becomes. Also, it would make sense to have an odd number, so that when the leaders come together, votes don't end up in a tie.

[GawainsChallenge]

I like the way Loki divided up responsibilities, but I think the Order at large would have more divisions than that (religious and administrative divisions for example.) Loki's divisions sound more like divisions WITHIN OpAphid. Remember, OpAphid does more than gather intelligence. It also [H]inders and [D]estroys. I think a lot of confusion is going on in this discussion right now because some people are assuming the task at hand is to divide up OpAphid while others are assuming the task is to divide up the Order with OpAphid probably being one of those divisions. Originally, I was leaning toward dividing up the entire Order, but now I'm leaning the other way.

[Nieriel.Manwathiel]

I'm not sure that the different branches can be broken up so easily (I don't think OpA has a Hinder Dept., a Protection Dept., etc.). It makes more sense that the APHID acronym is a guiding principle or mission statement which all the branches follow in their individual pursuits. Nevertheless, it makes sense that some branches focus more on some aspects of APHID than the others, as you have pointed out.

Yeah, I can see that. Watchers Analyze, people like Gemma Infiltrate or Hinder, War Pylol Destroys, etc.

or like the theory goes that watchers actually protect.

:wanted to work P in:

[Magesa]

My whole, long-winded post basics explains this: I think that these symbols all represent branches of OpAPHID, and OpAPHID is a part of the Order which deals exclusively with the ceremony.

It makes more sense to divide up OpAPHID than the whole Order. For starters, the Order would need different branches besides all of this death stuff. Also, OpAPHID does many things. OpAPHID certainly does watch, but the Watchers seem hand-off types, so they wouldn't cover the "hinder" and "destroy parts of the Order.

I'm thinking that OpAPHID is the section of the Order that deals with all aspects of the ceremony and its participants. OpAPHID could choose girls, train girls, judge girls, run the ceremony (and fake versions of it), etc. This would fit with the symbols as we've seen it (gathering, watching, judging, etc.) The Order (or, as I'm thinking, part of OpAPHID) chose Bree, the Watchers watched (and warned) her, Lucy trained her,
in the ceremony they may judge her... The ceremony is clearly extremely important, and it takes a LOT of people to pull it off (especially if there are thousands of girls like Bree.)

More reasons why these branches are for OpAPHID, and not the whole Order: The ceremony is obviously extremely important to the Order. But the Order also does other things, like run entire communities. It also seems like such a large organization would need other branches besides the ones we have cited. What about legal procedings, etc.? I think that this is explained by my theory that OpAPHID deals exclusively with the ceremony, and these symbols represent the branchs of OpAPHID.

Reasons why these symbols represent branches in the first place: This was meant for Bree, and this information would be helpful to Bree (although hard to decipher.) Also, Tachyon tolds us about the origin of the Watcher symbol (which was always called the "Watcher" symbol, not the "Order" or "OpAPHID" symbol), and then made it fuzzy. It seems very much like, "There's one, now do the rest." In any case, this thread poses the best application to the symbols that I've seen.

EDIT: to completely revise this post to prove the point that was lost in my gibberish the first time. I also made it longer, to put in more proof.

[CallMeNiel]

I'm still not convinced that it's divisions of OpA, because Op has only used the watcher symbol in the videos (right?). And the symbol doesn't necessarily refer to only watching, the symbol means they A.P.H.I. and D. everything from the sun to the seas.
It seems like the Theta in Theta Pi would have to refer to death, because she said it refers to death but not with the other theta, the Pi sounds like it means mouth, speak, judgement, in modern times plaintif (but that one doesn't count). Sounds to me like those who pass judgement regarding death, perhaps say or command death, or talk about everything under the sun. It sounds like a judge, or more broadly administrators, the Deacons, perhaps.
In the Gimel with Sigma, I like the idea of it being a Caduceus, this could refer to doctors (like Bree's "Dad"), or more generic people in the Order that help others in the order; the Community.
That leaves the Tau and Omicron. Tau is life/mark, which feels like Bree herself to me (if she's supposed to be a sacrifice or whatever, he's been 'marked' to bring them new life perhaps?). Omicron is supposed to be an eye we think? Put them together and you get the people who are supposed to keep an eye on Bree (and the other girls used for these ceremonies). We could give them a nice name like a "Helper" (compare to "Watcher"), like Lucy.

in short, my guess for the whole picture is:
Helpers Everyone else

Watchers Deacons

[iamcool]

That leaves the Tau and Omicron. Tau is life/mark, which feels like Bree herself to me (if she's supposed to be a sacrifice or whatever, he's been 'marked' to bring them new life perhaps?). Omicron is supposed to be an eye we think? Put them together and you get the people who are supposed to keep an eye on Bree (and the other girls used for these ceremonies).

what about the MARK of the EYE on her back from the swimming video???!!!

ohhh please let me have finally contributed something useful

[tigerlilylynn]

I'm thinking that OpAPHID is the section of the Order that deals with all aspects of the ceremony and its participants.

I otherwise agree but I think that OpAphid is more than that. There's nothing pointing to Bother's time in London (which got the D sent after him) was ceremony related. Also, I feel the only reason Tachyon was so put out by the fake ceremony was because she wants to get her revenge on.

Op went on and on about (paraphrase) "there are some things that are meant to remain a secret and those whose job it is to keep things that way". This is OpAphid. This doesn't invalidate but rather supports this being divisions of OpAphid.

Also, if OpAphid only dealt with a ceremony, though important, that happens every 12 years (as we think now that it does), why do the children learn a warm fuzzy version of OpAphid? This term is used enough by adults that the children need a safe version. It must be more than that.

The divisions could vary by power/access as Bree says of the order of denderah, in juristiction/area of power like CIA vs FBI, in purpose as with the watcher vs deacon division and so on.

I lean towards purpose given the ligatures but that doesn't negate the other levels that could map on with it.

I'd like to add that Warpylol didn't use a watcher symbol and we've never seen the D carried out in a watcher symbol vid or by a known watcher, so the assassins may be one of the groups still.

blarg 6am, hope that was English

[impulse]

I'm still not convinced that these four ligatures symbolize four branches of Opaphid and not the Order as a whole. It makes no sense at all. Opaphid is just one branch of the Order. How many subdivisions do they need? Is it Washington? Seriously, this story deals with the Order, not with Opaphid. Opaphid is just the lonely office on level 4 of building 12C on the South side of the campus. That would be ridiculous to hand us the floor map of Opaphid's office and the direction to the coffee machine when nothing is known about the main building. Seriously. (If you did that Tachyon, I'm changing side. Bitch!)

PS: Don't even try I'll never be convinced..... unless Glenn knocks at my door to tell it to me face to face..... and he'd better bring some beer...and some pot too....

[raigne]

This probably isn't important at all, but I thought it was interesting. You've all pretty much agreed the older origins of the letters are significant, well I noticed this on the Pe (Pi) page on wikipedia.

In gematria, Pe represents the number 80.

Gematria is hebrew numerology. The reason why I figure it's not important is that so far things have been influenced alot by Egyptian (heiroglyphics) and not Hebrew. Though a large part of the Bible is about the clash between those ancient cultures, so maybe it is signifigant. Not that the Order has anything to do with the Bible.

[Luv2Luvem]

Op went on and on about (paraphrase) "there are some things that are meant to remain a secret and those whose job it is to keep things that way". This is OpAphid. This doesn't invalidate but rather supports this being divisions of OpAphid.

I've been waiting for someone to bring up this tiger! We know that at least a part (and I believe it is a big part) of OpAphids job is to keep the Order's secrets. But we also know that Operation Aphid does other things as well. We know they have watchers. (And we know they consistently use the watcher symbol in their videos.) We also know that they have (for lack of a better word) assasins working for them (Warpy.) I agree that if these four symbols indeed mean "four pillars" it is the four pillars of OpAphid, and not the whole Order.

[tristan]

i think the symbols do lend themselves to be interpreted as part of Opaphid but one thing that i think makes a dent in this theory [though doesnt necessarily reject it] is Tachyon herself says in Semantics:

"When combined this "watcher" symbol establishes that the Order rules and watches over all that exists in between."

[Lurker]

i think the symbols do lend themselves to be interpreted as part of Opaphid but one thing that i think makes a dent in this theory [though doesnt necessarily reject it] is Tachyon herself says in Semantics:

"When combined this "watcher" symbol establishes that the Order rules and watches over all that exists in between."

How would that invalidate the notion that this is about segments of OpAPHID, though? OpAPHID's part of the Order, and the Watchers - as a segment of OpAPHID - would just be the tool through which the Order watched everything.

For instance, when a branch of the US military gets sent somewhere, other countries don't (not even the US for that matter) just refer to that one branch as being there. That one branch's presence is representative of the country's presence.

[tristan]

i think the symbols do lend themselves to be interpreted as part of Opaphid but one thing that i think makes a dent in this theory [though doesnt necessarily reject it] is Tachyon herself says in Semantics:

"When combined this "watcher" symbol establishes that the Order rules and watches over all that exists in between."

How would that invalidate the notion that this is about segments of OpAPHID, though? OpAPHID's part of the Order, and the Watchers - as a segment of OpAPHID - would just be the tool through which the Order watched everything.

For instance, when a branch of the US military gets sent somewhere, other countries don't (not even the US for that matter) just refer to that one branch as being there. That one branch's presence is representative of the country's presence.

true i agree it doesnt invalidate the symbols being for OpAPHID but seeing as we dont really even know the connection between Op and the Order [at least i dont think we do]. its difficult to speculate what Tachyon meant behind the words. so taking the words at face value it would seem that the symbols represent the Order

i'd also say that if u do the opposite and take the symbols at what we believe they mean it would seem like they represent Op...i guess i was just pointing out the contradiction/vagueness of it

ps great analogy

[Luminous]

I have a friend who is the "Pi archivist" at the Exploratorium Science Museum in San Francisco. He calls Pi the inter-dimensional transport, because it is used mathematically to transform one dimension into another. (I'm not a mathematician, so I'm not sure how) I don't know if that applies to the meaning of the symbol or not.

[PinkoLady]

Pi in ancient egypt meant 3.16, rather than 3.14 as it does now, if that means anything.

Anyway,

Theta - Mu = Sun to Water

Theta - Pi = Sun to ?