Flame Wars

[Kasdeja]

Perhaps since I don't know the specific instance that caused this particular discourse, my view is not skewed? I really don't know what allhappned...but I gather it was in Op world? I dunno. I just speak from the forums I have been on and moderated on. I'm not saying your theory is never true, but it's certainly not the rule. Sometimes people's complaints are there for a valid reason. It looks to me that whether people agree with the poster or not, that ther aRE issues this has raised that are very valid, even if not directly tied to whatever initiated all this. I think whatever rules are in place...should be more upfront, and it's always good process to have all admins/mods/pms, etc. on the same page and consistent. It is never o.k. for a moderator to join in the fray or attacks, etc., on any forum. Dont' take that as me saying that's what happened, I've stated I don't know what happened (just a cya for me, there). Agree to disagree. See? This is how adults handle disagreements...not that I don't enjoy the banter.

[bethy]

Please be aware that the moderators have guidelines we are expected to follow. I feel confidant that people are doing a good job and not over-moderating the forum. I'm not sure how this turned into a discussion of that issue, but if you have concerns, please raise them with me. Thanks.

I kasdeja said it perfectly, though, BK. Far better than my long-winded brainfart above.

The issues is with consistency. Flame wars and personal attacks, imo, can be reduced with consistent moderation. They may be doing a good job in your eyes, but if people are saying there's an issue with consistency, then perhaps it needs to be looked at a little more closely.

You have the details of my specific issue with consistency...and again, not going over specifics...but in my view, that was a very good example of inconsisent moderation. If you think that is an example of doing a good job, then we clearly have a difference of opinion on the issue. That's no big deal...this world would totally suck if everyone agreed on everything. But it's hard for me, as a forum user to reconcile your view of a "good job" when I clearly see it as a lousy one, and somwhat indicitive of a habit here that makes people upset.

[Killthesmiley]

What I suggest is that the moderators solidify a policy that states if you make such a remark that is offensive and slanderous in the public forum, you are asked to have a "time out" (a week or so). If the offender does not comply, then a "time out" will be placed. If it has to be told to the offender several times, over and over again, then that said member is up for review, where their posts and rodutivity is reviewed and see if that this is a continuing problem.
Seems like a lot of work, but as a temporary solution I think we can all benift from this.
And when i say temporary, I mean temporary, just until people get the point. Slanderous comments are not tolerated.

There is one problem that I have with that, how can you quantify what is offensive? Things that are offensive to you are not offensive to me and vice versa. You are offended by being called a "superfan" and I'm offended by the use of the word retarded. Does that mean that all posters who use those words get some sort of warning, or "write-up" so they know that can't use that kind of language again?

What i'm saying is that there need to be a solid policy that ever mod follows. Not all mods follow the guidelines that are set, and they pick and choose over favorites.
There needs to be concrete policies that are set up in the forums, posted, followed and enforced.
BK, I understand you guys don't want to "over-moderate" but the thing is, is that is the exsact problem, which i will consider and write about and PM you about with suggestions and asuch.

[bethy]

Perhaps since I don't know the specific instance that caused this particular discourse, my view is not skewed?

Well, I think we all have several instances that could have cause this discussion to start. I know that I can cite 6 off the top of my head...myself only being involved in one of them (and recently). I think it's more a bigger picture issue than anything.

[Luminous]

Perhaps since I don't know the specific instance that caused this particular discourse, my view is not skewed? I really don't know what allhappned...but I gather it was in Op world?

If there had only been a specific instance, this thread would not be as lengthy as it is. There have been a host of instances involving a variety of people that have created a general climate that is . . . shall I say . . . stormy? This is a big picture issue, not a personal one.

[Kasdeja]

No, no. I know that. But something specific did spawn all of this. I agree the bigger picture is the issue, because it's not the first time these issues have come up.

[bethy]

Not all mods follow the guidelines that are set, and they pick and choose over favorites.

This is true. I've seen it happen a lot here...even to myself on Friday, as I mentioned earlier. It's not that I think the moderator is a bad person or even a bad moderator...but the behavior is really inconsisent and they show foavirtism at times that really maks people unwlecome....whether they actually mean to do it or not. That's why true consistency needs to be in place.

If I called someone an idiot and my post is deleted...the the following post calling me a bitch should go, too. If I get a warning for personal attacks, that other poster should get one as well, even if it is a friend of the moderator.

[itsreallyreal]

Please be aware that the moderators have guidelines we are expected to follow. I feel confidant that people are doing a good job and not over-moderating the forum. I'm not sure how this turned into a discussion of that issue, but if you have concerns, please raise them with me. Thanks.

I have sent a PM.

[Luminous]

If I called someone an idiot and my post is deleted...the the following post calling me a bitch should go, too. If I get a warning for personal attacks, that other poster should get one as well, even if it is a friend of the moderator.

Bolding and quoting for emphasis. This is a very important point, Bethy.

[gogo]

FYI
Forum Etiquette, Rules, and Policies
These rules are posted in Forum Announcements.

I don't mean to interrupt.

[Oz]

The biggest complaint I see from people who post (and who don't post here) is that the moderators (and specific groups) aren't effective and don't listen. They don't seem to have a clear process in place to handle situations...or when to simply let things go on their own. It is especially difficult when moderators behave badly...because they have the power that regular posters do not. Without a process in places, regular forum visitors see a high degree of disregard and lack of courtesy.

I'm not one to rock the boat but as someone who has only joined relatively recently I think my opinion is relevant. Mostly because I have no personal issues or axe to grind.

However, the above quote is one that I have heard people touch on around here and on other sites where these forums were being discussed. Mods here simply don't seem to command the respect and authority that they do in other places I have frequented.

Whether this the fault of mods or members is not for me to say. This could be a consequence of mods being too personally involved. IMO, I think a mod should never have to flame someone to get them to stop doing something. If the authority and respect is there then a request or a warning is all that is needed. If people see a mod as just another poster who has their own agenda and is flaming people too, then people lose that respect.

I'm not saying mods have to lose all of their personality and opinions just because they are a mod, if necessary mods could have two logins. That way no-one knows who the mods are and if you get told off by one you can't get personal. this also removes any pressure for mods to favour their buddies.

I hope that doesn't sound like I'm mod-bashing because I'm not. It's an important and difficult job. I also agree with what a lot of other people have said about the need for a process of warning and then punishment.

[bethy]

Please be aware that the moderators have guidelines we are expected to follow. I feel confidant that people are doing a good job and not over-moderating the forum. I'm not sure how this turned into a discussion of that issue, but if you have concerns, please raise them with me. Thanks.

Also...I'd like to say, BK...I don't think the issue is that the forums are over moderated. In fact, it's just the opposite...there's isn't enough consisent moderation.

[Killthesmiley]

FYI
Forum Etiquette, Rules, and Policies
These rules are posted in Forum Announcements.

I don't mean to interrupt.

to me that's short..in all honesty, and very vague.
I've skimmed over it and its no where near as intense and detailed as some of the forums i've seen...

[bethy]

FYI
Forum Etiquette, Rules, and Policies
These rules are posted in Forum Announcements.

I don't mean to interrupt.

Thanks for that. I don't think the issue is that there are no rules...but that the rules aren't being enforced consistently...which is what harbors confusion and resentment and leads to flame wars and attacks.

[gogo]

Good point.
This is the only forum that I have ever joined, so I don't have anything for comparison.