New direction...

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:17 pm

Ziola wrote:I think that the choosing of moderators should be completely left up to BK, the existing mods and the Creators.

I think that its fine to make recommendations and to say that you think someone should be considered, but other then that, we really should have no input.

I disagree...I think we have the right to say what we want in a moderator. We don't need to talk about specific people, but I think it's perfectly appropriate to lay out what the mods should and shouldn't be doing in relation to the game. I personally, feel they shouldn't be involved in game play and need to remain more neutral. I think that's one of the biggest problems we had before...on many different levels, for many different reasons.

trainer101 · Post by **trainer101** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:21 pm

bethy wrote:
Ziola wrote:I think that the choosing of moderators should be completely left up to BK, the existing mods and the Creators.

I think that its fine to make recommendations and to say that you think someone should be considered, but other then that, we really should have no input.
I disagree...I think we have the right to say what we want in a moderator. We don't need to talk about specific people, but I think it's perfectly appropriate to lay out what the mods should and shouldn't be doing in relation to the game. I personally, feel they shouldn't be involved in game play and need to remain more neutral. I think that's one of the biggest problems we had before...on many different levels, for many different reasons.

I read this 3 times. Where's the disagreement? You each said basically the same thing in different words.

ApotheosisAZ · Post by **ApotheosisAZ** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:22 pm

wintermute wrote:It would add a whole new dimension to the game, to be sure. The existence of double agents would add a level of realism as well. But with the overall anonymous nature of the Internet makes it too easy for people to subvert a game of that nature into something that's no longer fun for anyone but those who get off on causing trouble.

'mute

'mute is right. While there have been characters who are/were double agents, the game will only be fun if everyone agrees to work together.

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:22 pm

ApotheosisAZ · Post by **ApotheosisAZ** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:24 pm

Ziola wrote:

I knew you would see the humor and irony in that.

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:25 pm

Glad I lived up to your expectations

Onewen · Post by **Onewen** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:27 pm

ApotheosisAZ wrote:'mute is right. While there have been characters who are/were double agents, the game will only be fun if everyone agrees to work together.

Totally agree...but, historically, we turn on each other so fast around here...not saying we all can't grow...haha

Just saying that people are on edge...((even as I am typing this I am worried about offending people)). I love the puzzles...and the idea of double agents is actually growing on me, I just don't want us to blow this whole forum up with our wrath if something goes wrong!

*re-reads to triple check...quick edit...breathes*

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:30 pm

bethy wrote:I just would add that any new moderators to the forum (since it seems we'll need a whole new batch of them now) not be players or participants in the game itself. They should be more like referees or line judges. Follow the game? yes...know what's happening? yes. But don't actively participate in game play. Does that make any sense?

It eliminates the possibility that the mods might play favorites, or that

This makes sense in a way, but...

I don't think it's needed. I wish I hadn't gone through two hard drive crashes and a couple of burglaries since I wrote all my training materials for game 'ops (yeah, different than ARG play, but... <shrug> similar in spirit), because it really is possible to keep things on an even playing field and still allow the folks who are moderating to participate.

It would be one thing if they were being paid - you could easily hand down rules to say they weren't allowed to play, and it would be a completely reasonable expectation. But you have to remember that these are folks who are volunteering their time to do this... That does make a big difference! <huge smile>

If I'm going to be moderating in a forum area (and I am not saying I am - please don't think I'm thinking in that direction!!

), and I'm watching a puzzle being worked on, and all of a sudden, I have a light bulb moment...well, these are few and far between with me... I am way too likely to blurt it out. I'm not going to do so because I support Oppy or Tachy. I'm going to do so because I have a flippin' big mouth and can't help myself! <chuckle>

Will this make me a bad mod under the No Play scheme of things...or just a silly ol' lady who'd like to have a proud moment every now and again? Hopefully, the latter, though I've a hunch the light bulb flash may have blinded me...and my grand idea may be something highly entertaining...and well worth overlooking anyway...

It's not going to make me look sideways at you, just because you've indicated (in very polite language) that you think I'm something of a goofball for thinking I had discovered The Holy Grail... I'm going to look at you with awe...cuz while I love puzzles, I'm truly not very good at them... <rueful grin>

But whether I look at you sideways or with awe, if you call SomeYoungPosterChild the village idiot because you think he is one (or even because he really is), I'm going to deal with it...because it should be dealt with. I will deal with it calmly, quietly, and carefully, so that your feelings are intact at the end of our conversation - because you deserve just as much respect as SomeYoungPosterChild deserves...

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:43 pm

I think we need to stop worrying about offending people. Seriously. Walking on eggshells just causes more stress. At least, that's been my experience. People let themselves get offended.

If everyone approached the ARG with the same playful attitude that they would if they were playing, oh let's say.... Battleship... it would turn into healthy, fun atmosphere. There's nothing wrong with a little competition. Too many people try to be overly PC about things that they just turn into annoying cliches. I'm not really referring to you onewen, just more in general, you comments just kind of sparked it.

Post by **wintermute** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:49 pm

With posts as elegant as that, chershaytoute, one really does have to rethink the need of moderators in the first place. But please don't put us out to pasture

'mute

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:50 pm

If I'm going to be moderating in a forum area (and I am not saying I am - please don't think I'm thinking in that direction!! Laughing), and I'm watching a puzzle being worked on, and all of a sudden, I have a light bulb moment...well, these are few and far between with me... I am way too likely to blurt it out. I'm not going to do so because I support Oppy or Tachy. I'm going to do so because I have a flippin' big mouth and can't help myself! <chuckle>

GOod point.

The only reason I suggested it was because it helps to prevent some of the sutff that went on before. However...choosing the proper moderators who understand how to be a mod, will avoid that kind of thing anyway, and they can do the things you've mentioned. I don't have a problem with that...however, with the history involved...it may help to be a little more careful to avoid even the suspicion of "stuff" going on.

Like I said, just a suggestion...much to everyone's surprise, I don't actually expect people to agree with or do everything I suggest.

subterfuge · Post by **subterfuge** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 pm

Double agents?

Where?

/me looks over shoulder

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:29 pm

whistles innocently and exits, stage left even

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:30 pm

I think we need to stop worrying about offending people. Seriously. Walking on eggshells just causes more stress. At least, that's been my experience. People let themselves get offended.

bethy, I am the first person on Earth to back away from the PCness of it all... But... (bet you heard that "but" coming from miles'n'miles away!

)

There's no reason under heaven to not offend people. If something can be said, it can be said in a way that's not offensive. It just takes a little more time. Unfortunately, time often equates to work, to some people. Me, I like words. I probably enjoy my own words far too much... <chuckle> Which means that, to me, taking the time to try to say something in such a way that I don't offend is, for me, enjoyable.

I have seen something good in everything you've posted. But, then again, I have seen something good in just about everything that just about everyone has posted. I'm like that. I don't just take lemons to make a glass of lemonade. I add a little of extra <cough> "goodness" and pass things around for a real party!

With posts as elegant as that, chershaytoute, one really does have to rethink the need of moderators in the first place. But please don't put us out to pasture

'mute, nevereverever! I enjoy online communities too much for that - and absolutely loved all the time I spent "sysoping" (gads, do they still call it that anywhere anymore?)...ain't gonna do anything that causes you guys to get the sack... (hey, silly! I'm busy arguing your case for you!

)

itsreallyreal · Post by **itsreallyreal** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:36 pm

Yeah... Doble agents is trickey to do... It takes ALLOT of "Scouts Honor" to pull it off and frankly the internet has too many people on it for me to make a blanket statement that "I trust you all"...

I DO like the idea of sides and maybe having a forum section for each "side" to pal around on... If moderated properly I think it could be pretty awesome...

As for the MOD thing... I have been a part of many forums... The best way I have noticed that Forum Moding works out is to find a great current member... Then give them a WHOLE NEW SCREEN NAME... That way they can seperate clearly when they have their "MOD Hat" on and when they have their "Member Hat" on... Know what I mean?

This is also intended to be a secret so no one knows who the MOD really is. It keeps people from dragging Member drama and history into the way they address and deal with the new MOD...

As far as selection.. I don;t care what anyone says, really it boils down to the Admin and MOD's to all agree on who they can get along with, has the right attitude and is willing to work well with the entire group... So I always say they are the best to decide who... Members can always toss out names so that the MODs can see who the forum likes... But a REAL vote or democratic process almost never works... I have seen it get REAL ugly...